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Old November 9 2009, 06:48 PM   #90
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Re: What did you like about Nemesis?

USS Bones wrote: View Post
Well, I understand more the complaints about action hero Picard in Insurrestion. But then, it's not completely contrary to TNG. After all, he was on the mission in Chain of Command. He is clearly a capable soldier if necessary. And in the films, it was necessary.
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
USS Bones wrote: View Post
I think it makes more sense to have Riker on the away team and Picard on the ship. Because of Picard's relationship with the Borg. After all, if we'd have had the opening Locutus scenes, and then Picard has nothing to do with the Borg for the rest of the film, it would have felt a little off.
Sure, it just goes against what we've mostly seen in TNG, and that's fine given that FC is supposed to be an epic film. It flips the traditional Picard/Riker dynamic around, but narrative-wise, I agree.

At least there was a hint of the old ways: Picard was among the first to get to the Phoenix, and not Riker.
It isn't out of character for Picard to be engaged in action (the Die Hard episode anyone?).
It's not out of character, but it's out of the norm. Let's all remember that Picard was traditionally a diplomat and academic first, fighter second, hence why the action-oriented character of Riker had to be created. For every episode where Picard had to get his hands dirty, Riker probably had 5 or more. I never said Picard wouldn't fight, but whenever he did on TNG, it was rare. That's what makes his fights special.

Even then, in Starship Mine, he carefully maneuvered his way around the ship, taking terrorists out with resourcefulness, wits, and planning, which is nearly the opposite of how he took out the entire bridge crew in Nemesis (not a lot of planning, a whole lot of PEW PEW PEW!).

And Riker ALWAYS led the away teams in the show. And it makes much more sense to have Picard deal with the Borg, not Riker. How would that have worked? Picard is on Earth, senses the Borg aboard his ship, and he goes: "Riker, get back to the Enterprise, kill the Borg."?
Like I said earlier, within the context of the FILM itself, having Riker and Picard switch roles is appropriate (again, that's why a few posts ago, I said it was okay "all things considered.") And Riker didn't ALWAYS lead the Away Teams -- Picard had once in a while overridden Riker to lead a team himself despite Riker's objections.

I'm pretty sure that had it not been the Borg but some other villain, Picard would have stayed behind with the Phoenix because of his famous scholarly side. But again, there's nothing wrong per se with Picard leading the fight with the Borg either, it's just not what we see very often in TNG.

(I'm now waiting for someone to tell me that Picard was somehow more swashbuckling than Kirk, a better martial artist than Worf, stronger than Data, and more impulsive than Archer).

Oh, if only Shazam! hadn't cut out the words all things considered when he cited my post...

USS Bones wrote: View Post
He is clearly a capable soldier if necessary. And in the films, it was necessary.
This I'm kind of iffy about, however. Certainly he's a capable soldier, we've seen that several times (BoBW, Yesterday's Enterprise, etc. etc. etc.). But I don't know about his turning into a physical action hero as a form of resolution. Let's also remember that Chain of Command wasn't resolved with guns blazing, but partly because of Picard's integrity and willpower (something I think speaks far more about him than any of his movie fights).

I mention this because there's Shatner Kirk. He solved a film by getting into a face-to-face confrontation twice out of seven movies... and this is Man of Action Kirk. It just seems very odd to me that Picard is put into these situations by writers all four times he's on screen. Even Kirk and Khan were never truly face-to-face. Primarily, I blame the writers for maneuvering Picard into such routes, and they're just a few reasons why I don't like INS and NEM (it was particularly cartoony in NEM, in an 80s Stallone flick kind of way).

With the Borg Queen, sure I can believe that scenario as it was on the Enterprise itself. I can also forgive Soran (to a point) as it was the first TNG movie AND that Picard hadn't yet turned into some sort of dynamo yet (he really did fight like an old man! )
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy

Last edited by Cyke101; November 9 2009 at 07:12 PM.
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