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Old November 2 2009, 11:22 PM   #19
The Borgified Corpse
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Re: "Children of Earth" & the Right to Bear Arms (spoilers)

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
In the context of Torchwood Children of Earth, in the end Gwen had a gun, but one or two pistols against a dozen men armed with SA-80s? Maybe in NRA fantasy land that's be a fair fight but in reality her best option was still to just hide, then run.
Ideally it wouldn't have just been Gwen, though, right? It would have been Gwen, and her neighbor, and that guy's neighbor, and the bloke across the street, and so forth.
Exactly. In fact, most military conflicts are rarely "fair" fights. However, the military vs. a dozen armed civilians would be a much fairer fight than the military vs. a dozen unarmed civilians. And as for numbers, it looked pretty evenly matched when Andy, Ianto's brother-in-law, & those other guys attacked those soldiers. I suspect that in any similar situation where the government becomes impossibly tyrannical, the number of free-thinking civilians will far outnumber the military.

Really, what other option is there when the government decides to go to war against its own people?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Yes, because there is a real risk of alien invasion any day now ...
Like I said, the alien invasion aspect is pure science fiction. However, I think it's always a very practical question of what is society doing to safeguard itself against such unacceptable government intrusion.

wamdue wrote: View Post
Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Yes, because there is a real risk of alien invasion any day now ...
you never know it might be the US liberal gun policy that keeps them from invading, when you add up all the guns & missiles in the world, we are not a totally defenceless little planet, get rid of all of them, and who knows.
That was what the 2nd Simpsons Halloween special speculated. "Ahh! He's got a board with a nail through it!"

Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
You might just as well argue that "Children of Earth" clearly shows that the military and intelligence services should be abolished. They're just too dangerous to be kept around. At some point someone is going to misuse them.
Clearly the military & intelligence services should not be abolished. Generally, they do a good job of providing for the common defense against external threats in ways that the people are ill-equipped for. However, I think "Children of Earth" does raise the issue of what can happen if we put unyielding trust in the government and don't take additional precautions to defend ourselves when the government becomes the enemy. What else do you suggest? That we surrender like sheep to the slaughter?

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the 2nd amendment actually means that people should keep arms to form a militia. since the establishment of the US Army, there is no need for the right to bear arms. too bad too many stupid ass Americans fail to realise that and repeal the 2nd amendment.
The whole point of this conversation is that there is a need for the right to bear arms precisely because we have a large Army that is not under the direct control of the people.

Also, I have a different interpretation of the 2nd Amendment from you. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" (emphasis mine). While forming a militia is the suggested purpose of the 2nd Amendment, it is the right of the people to keep arms for it. Also, since the 2nd Amendment never explicitly defines a "militia" in clear, legal, constitutional terms, I believe it is up to the people to form & regulate militias as they see fit.
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