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Old October 17 2009, 07:58 PM   #52
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Re: In Defense of the Occupation

Kegg wrote: View Post
Hey, a German who refused orders to kill Jews would be a traitor. He'd also be doing the moral thing. These are not mutually exclusive, and by and large being a traitor to the Nazis is a more moral thing than supporting them (for obvious reasons.)
That's not the way the word "traitor" has been used in that discussion (and not how it is usually used).

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Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Thing is, the Jews were a threat to Germany only in the twisted, paranoid rantings of Hitler and his deluded countrymen. The Cylons had already wiped out upwards of 99.999% of the human race and were still attacking. This wasn't genocide as a retaliatory act that Apollo was suggesting, Devil Eyes, it was genocide as a necessary pre-condition of the human race's survival, the paranoid fantasy of genocide-as-self-defense made real. As such--within the logic and reality of the show--it was the only tenable option unless the human race was willing, like the Halkans of "Mirror, Mirror," to die as a race in the name of a pacifistic ideal, a hard sell in a show predicated on militarism. Helo took it upon himself to make that decision and it was only the crude and arbitrary plot twists of the subsequent episodes that vindicated him. Were I Adama and/or Roslin, I'd have airlocked him.
Adama was obviously against the plan himself, and very relieved when Helo sabotaged it since he did not really want to go through with it himself. He probably guessed exactly who sabotaged the plan and did not do anything because he secretly approved of what he did - which was confirmed in the deleted scene from "Woman King".

You are not going to convince me that there is no difference between fighting a war and committing a genocide in that war. You might pretend that it is the same, but you should realize that it's not. The Colonials were most definitely fighting a war, not refusing to fight it and agreeing "to die as a race in the name of a pacifistic ideal". Adama and Helo were both military men, and as such was not upholding "pacifistic ideals" (maybe you confused them with the "Demand Peace" movement from season 2, who presented as idiots in the show), but humanistic and military ideals which include not using biological weapons in attempt to wipe out an entire race of sentient beings.
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