Thread: The Typhon Pact
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Old July 25 2009, 08:37 PM   #158
Cicero
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Re: The Typhon Pact

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Isn'tthe Federation of Star Trek supposted to be ABOVE that sort of stuff though, also the Typhon Pact HASN'T done any official hostile action against the Feds so doing that makes them look like total tools who only care about remaining on top.
Sci wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post

Does it? Rome and other great empires (imperial and republican) successfully forced many other countries to bow to their will.
Rome fell. To say nothing of the fact that Rome was, as you put it, an empire -- a state built upon violating foreign states' rights. It was not a liberal democracy; it was an empire built on conquest and not one the Federation ought to emulate.
Rome fell, but first it stood for a thousand years. Regardless of its eventual fate, its policies were highly successful at securing stability and safety for Rome itself for hundreds of years. Rome was predominate for a greater time than that in which most nations even exist.

I wasn't suggesting that the Federation emulate it, though. My point was to Christopher's assertion that the application of Force is a policy that will necessarily fail. I agree that it will fail if it is the only policy applied (except when used for annihilation), but do think it can be quite successful if combined with the right element of peaceful cooperation and integration - the arrows and olive branchs of the US seal, if you will. Remember that in World War II, we applied to force to (essentially) two countries, achieved a military victory, and then sustained that victory in peace by offering policies which treated the defeated nations well and brought areas ruined by war back to prosperity (e.g. the Marshall Plan).

Even the United States was very successful in the use of force - and, at times, in manipulation - in conquering North America (and in opening Japan to the outside world, ending the Russo-Japanese war, etc.).
You've just listed policies the U.S. undertook in the past that it absolutely should not have undertaken -- immoral, imperial policies that never benefitted us half as much as policies like the Marshall Plan, policies built on mutual cooperation and partnership.[/QUOTE]

I disagree that our early imperial policies benefited us less than the Marshall Plan and other policies of cooperation. I doubt we would be nearly so prosperous today had the bulk of the North American continent not been united and industrialized so quickly - nevermind the initial imperialism integral to our establishment. Whether those policies were moral, is, of course, a separate question. (And one which I'd rather defer.)

Also, US intervention in the Russo-Japanese War earned President Roosevelt the Nobel Peace Prize.
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