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Old July 15 2009, 08:03 PM   #67
Saquist
Commodore
 
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: Vertical Intermix Chamber and TMP Enterprise

Timo wrote: View Post
we know Bajoran impulse ships don't have warp speed
Huh?

We don't even know that there exists such a thing as a "Bajoran impulse ship". In "The Siege", a couple of winged interceptors challenge Dax and Kira's subimpulse raider, and Kira dives into the atmosphere, believing that this will deprive the interceptors of their advantage of having impulse engines. But the episode makes absolutely no suggestion that the winged interceptors would be warp-incapable. And indeed said design is seen in interstellar space, on errands that absolutely require warp drive, in "Preemptive Strike" and "Through a Looking Glass", proving that it indeed has warp drive.

In "Ensign Ro", we see the Bajora terrorist group operate a freighter that lacks warp capability. But later on, we learn that ships of that design are capable of interstellar flight, so the loss of capability must have been due to a malfunction rather than design.

In "Shadows and Symbols", Bajor assembles a fleet of impulse ships, which features a few of the winged interceptors, too. But we never learn which ships in the fleet are "impulse ships"; apparently, the winged interceptors are not.

Timo Saloniemi
An impulse ship is a spacecraft limited to impulse propulsion.
The Bajoran Militia employed impulse ships of various designs. In 2375, the Bajoran Provisional Government deployed twelve of those vessels in a blockade around Derna, commanded by Colonel Kira Nerys, to prevent the Romulans from supplying weapons to their hospital complex. The move was largely symbolic, as the ships themselves posed little military threat to the Romulans.~Memory Alpha

If memory serves, this term comes from Kira's description of these vessels capabilities. We know they had interstellar travel from the points you bring up but impulse, we know, isn't restricted to sub light.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Saquist wrote: View Post
The only thing that contradicts what newtype_alpha is saying is that we know Bajoran impulse ships don't have warp speed and that warp fields are synonmous with subspace mass reducing fields.
NOT true.

There's plenty of on-screen evidence to the contrary, but the best example is in the pilot to "Deep Space 9."
That's very true.
Apparently other things can generate subspace fields...apparently shield emitters of DS9 can do it because thats the only system large enough to envelop the entire station.

I wouldn't say "plenty of Evidence" though. I found only two and the other from Alpha doesn' have a reference.

DS9 isn't capable of generating a "warp field." Yet it certainly is capable of generating a "subspace field."

See, "warp field" is a SUBSET of "subspace field." Every "warp field" as you call it is actually a distorted form of subspace field.. a "warped" subspace field.

But many systems which are not even intended to be self-motive (such as computer cores) have subspace field generation incorporated. And DS9 used the cardassian shield generator system (which is evidently subspace-field-based) to reduce the station's mass sufficiently to allow it to move to the wormhole in time to "save the day."
Ultimately if there is another form of mass reducing field that still makes impulse at least partially driven but field propulsion.
Just keep repeating this to yourself... "a subspace field isn't necessarily a 'warp field'."
It would seem to be true...
but it doesn't make sense. ANYTHING that reduces the mass of an object is either altering the universal motion relative to the object or altering the objects relative motion to the universe.

Yet this also explains why ships that continuely use mass reducing fields like warp fields don't move. In order to move your mass would have to be reduced to the point of nearly the same energy state of energy...So there IS a Velocity Threshold for a Warp field.

We know that subspace fields do two things... increase the local value of C, and decrease the "projected mass shadow" of any object inside the field. This has been repeated established on-screen.
Okay..I don't know what you mean by the "local value of Light." Explain:
A "Mass Shadow" is a Star Wars term which is completely unscientific. Mass doesn't project anything.

Einstien discovered that many things in the universe are results of differing relative motions or velocities. Mass and the Universe share a similar relationship. One has a tendency not to change motion, Mass, and the other is in a constant rate of change, The universe.

Notice:
Gravity and acceleration/deceleration have the exact same effects.

There is no force other than movement in effect in Gravity. No Mass Shadow or Graviton enacting between two objects. Planets and Stars are merely doing what all matter does...inertia...resisting a change in motion. The effect of you on a planet is just like two falling objects running into each other in mide flight. The flight or fall or motion is the expansion of the universe and inorder for Gravity to continue to exist in the universe the universe MUST continue to expand.

I don't think ANYONE is seriously suggesting that "impulse drive" as we see it used on Trek is a "simple rocket" propulsion system. Am I mistaken here?
I get the impression some do.

No... for "impulse" to work, and yet to remain meaningful, it needs to be a COMPOSITE SYSTEM. Use a field to reduce the mass (and thus the inertial effects, allowing greater acceleration/decelleration for far less actual thrust) and, consequently, to also increase the local speed of light, so that your "rocket thrust" (that is, an IMPULSE based propulsion system) is able to do thing that a "regular rocket" would never be practical for.
Then why not just call it a "subspace field coil" instead of a driver coil?
If the coil is doing what you're saying it does then it's not driving anything.

But it's not necessary to say "it's one or the other." It's not. It doesn't HAVE to be. There's no compelling argument for it to be. And there are a LOT of compelling arguments for it to be the "hybrid FTL impulse, supplemented by a static subspace field" that I've been pushing for the past... what, three years now?
I would like you to go into detail on that.
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