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Old July 6 2009, 01:05 AM   #588
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat
Weren't you applauding Sci's speech about human imperfection, human limitation and human failure, depicted in "Destiny", opposed to the Caeliar's superiority - beings who easily solved a problem that was way beyond humanity's capabilities?
If you think that the point of my post was "human failure vs. Caeliar superiority," then you have a severe reading comprehension problem.

The point was not, "Humans fail and Caeliar are superior." The point was learning to accept your failures alongside your successes, your weaknesses alongside your strengths, your mortality alongside your life.

The same applies to the Caeliar. It took the Federation to make the Caeliar accept their own weaknesses as a culture. Only with Federation influence did the Caeliar learn to accept their own flaws, and then act to become a better, freer culture.

In other words -- neither one was superior or inferior. Both had to learn humility. The Federation had to learn that it was not capable of everything, and the Caeliar had to learn that they were not entitled to everything. The Caeliar had to learn that their values were no longer (if they had ever been) sufficient, and the Federation had to learn that its power had never been sufficient. Each gave what the other lacked.

Silvermosk3, Deranged Nasat
OK. Let's run some numbers. Initially, there were 7000+ cubes.
At least 7,461, actually, but the text implies there could be more.

3500/half were destroyed in Dax's plan.
We don't know that, actually. We know that the cubes attacking Vulcan, Qo'noS, Andor, Tellar, and Rigel were destroyed, and that an unknown number of other cubes were also destroyed. That's it.

Let's say 1500 remain.
The text of Lost Souls establishes rather firmly that a minimum of 4,000 cubes survived Hernandez's "hacking" of the Collective.

Page 346:

Reports from thousands of cubes dispersed throughout local space all relayed the same urgent message to the Borg Queen.
Page 381:

Exasperated, Dax replied, "You want a contingency plan for what to do after we're surrounded by more than four thousand Borg cubes?"
Page 387:

Choudhury looked at Worf. "Borg cubes are emerging from the subspace tunnels, sir--thousands of them. The entire armada."

"Split screen," Worf said. Kadohata adjusted the main viewer to show two images: Hernandez and Inyx on the right and, on the left, the arriving Borg armada surrounding Axion and blotting out the stars with their sheer numbers.
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Let's say Picard manages to gather the majority of those cubes in one place - by sending fake omega particle readings or some other smart (for a change) plan
The Federation has no capacity to send such fake signals. You either have the Omega Molecule or you don't. If you do, Federation technology is so primitive as to severely risk the end of warp travel throughout the entirety of local space (hence the Omega Directive). Luring the cubes to one area requires the cooperation of the Caeliar, no matter what.

- and destroys them with the thalaron weapon.
It is exceedingly unlikely that they would manage to destroy the entire armada. Even if the Borg fleet suffered 90% casualty rates, that would leave 400 cubes left, and this after the Borg had adapted to transphasic torpedoes. Even only 400 cubes is more than enough to exterminate the Federation.

Starfleet has slipstream drive - when it comes to crossing intergalactic distances, it's the only way to fly, baby!.
And it's only able to adapt a small number of ships to use them.

In 100 years,
An unrealistically optimistic assessment of how much time the Federation would have before the Borg returned.

thousands/tens of thousands of convoys will be send beyond the milky way - carrying tens of BILLIONS of refugees. The alpha/beta civilizations will survive.
No, it would collapse because civilizations can't survive on ships. It would lead to billions of people dying in the process of the migration, it would disrupt entire societies, it would decimate any society that has unique planetary environment requirements, and then the ships would be trapped for thousands of years between the stars. And the Borg would keep coming. They'd just find the slipstream technology and assimilate that.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is." - That goes double for intergalactic distances. The borg can have as many cubes as they want. They will never find all the convoys. Not even close.
Even if we grant you that -- what then? You have these convoys of refugee ships trapped in the intergalactic void. What kind of life would that be? What makes you think that they'd be able to survive? Where would they get new energy? How would they cope with trying to perpetuate their cultures under those conditions?

The entire concept is absurd on its face. You try evacuating, say, the entire Republic of Austria onboard ocean-bound ships, force those ships to stay at sea forever, and see how well Austrian society survives.

We know many species ascend into beings made of pure thought, pure energy - incredibly powerfull beings. Sooner or later, humanity or another alpha/beta species will manage this performance.
Don't be absurd. Evolution is not a pre-determined course, and there's no guarantee that humanity (or its allies) would survive long enough trapped in the intergalactic void to achieve that feat even if it's possible.
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
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