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Old July 5 2009, 10:04 PM   #572
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Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Picard, Riker and the rest of the federation "pretended" to try to stop the borg.
To be more exact, they were content to trade transphasic torpedos with the borg, knowing that the collective will adapt. And when the borg finally adapted, thay just grabed their heades and screamed in desperation - as dignified as possible, of course.
Yes, that's right, people who tried everything they could think of to save lives and then died for it just "weren't even trying."

And for the first time in his career - as depicted on-screen - Picard was an incompetent cry-baby. Before - even when he faced the borg - he always managed to pull himself together.
True. But, there again, Picard was never facing the Borg Collective at its fullest, either -- nor facing the imminent destruction of his civilization and everything he holds dear at their hands.

And about the ending - I dislike not only the fact that it transformed humans into the playthings of the gods,
It did no such thing; the "gods" were following the will of the Humans, if anything.

but it also made the star trek universe a much darker place.
The end of the Borg Collective and the liberation of millions makes the Trekverse a much darker place?

I'm assuming you're referring to the destruction of so many worlds in the Federation. The problem with claiming that the ending to Destiny made the Trekverse a darker place is that, well... the destruction of all those worlds came before the ending to the trilogy. It came about two-thirds of the way through it, actually.

Besides, part of the point of the Destiny trilogy was that the Borg have done this before, to thousands of worlds across the galaxy. Having them trash the Federation, too, doesn't make the Trekverse any darker than it was before -- it just forces the audience to confront the darkness that already existed in the Trekverse instead of saying, "Well, it's over there, so we don't have to worry about it."

And, yes, the Federation will recover. That's far more inspirational and optimistic than a Federation that never faces real hardship.

For example - In "A singular destiny", The Typhon Pact is introduced - an alliance of powers who were always hostile toward the Federation - and still are.
And as was noted in the ASD thread, it's not clear at all that the Pact will just be hostile to the Federation, nor that it will inevitably lead to war. The Pact is comprised of six different cultures with six different agendas, from the Romulans under Tal'Aura who are just trying to regain their interstellar prominence, to the Tholians who are trying to screw over the Federation, to the Gorn, who want to become stronger but are not antagonistic towards the Federation.

And, Sci - in "Losing the Peace", I doubt Picard
because the situation was so rosy.
You are moving the goal posts. I cited that as evidence that Picard is not passive, not that the situation is rosy.

No one claimed the situation is rosy. But I don't think that a rosy situation is all that optimistic or inspirational. As I said above:

Utopia is a lie.

Deranged Nasat
La Forge's view is moral only for someone following an amish-like morality.
Right, because your morality is Absolutely Right (TM) and if another culture diverges from that morality, they're wrong and Amish-like. (Nice disrespect for another culture there, BTW.)

But, you see, both Picard and La Forge are in Starfleet - they swore to protect the Federation even if that means using deadly force against the aggressors - like in the Dominion War. By refusing to use deadly force against the borg, Picard and La Forge betrayed their Starfleet oath; they betrayed the Federation.
They also swore not to issue or obey illegal orders. By their culture, using thalaron weapons would constitute an illegal order -- which would be, y'know, a betrayal of the Federation and its values.

And Erica Hernandes may have beeen human once; not anymore. Now she is a Caeliar, a transcedental, "perfect" being,
They never claimed or depicted her as transcendental or perfect. When she identifies herself as Caeliar, she's referring to culture -- she's emigrated and become integrated into Caeliar culture, and has had such a profound impact on them by prompting them to finally start changing and disregard their old stagnancy that she has an obligation to stay with them for its consequences.

It's a change of culture, not an ascension to a higher plane. The Caeliar are as saved by the Federation as the Federation is by the Caeliar.
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
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