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Old May 12 2009, 01:32 AM   #37
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: OMFG MASSIVE SPOLIERS: NeoTrek Engine Musings

Falconfire wrote: View Post
BolianAdmiral wrote: View Post
An accurate description, and NOT for the sake of merely hating the way it looked.

It's stupid because there is NO WAY such a massive space could be placed into the ship, in a way that would fit into the "filming miniature", for lack of a better term. This thing would take up the ENTIRE secondary hull, it looked so damn massive.
I think that was the point, in this Enterprise the engineering hull IS the engineering hull and not just the location of a room.

There are several problems with what you just said... the first of which is that the only visual cue of where "Engineering" is comes from the location we see the beer-casks ejecting from the neck. I suspect that they are trying to replicate the old Roddenberry conceit that the "main engine room" was located by the impulse engines.

The second is that we see the interior of the "hangar deck" which has a very good establishment of scale during the "space dive" launch sequence. It's HUGE. It easily takes up the majority of the upper half of the "engineering hull." There is NO ROOM for the engine room and the hangar deck to coexist in that region. The engine room must be below the hangar, or above it. And if below... the ejection bit makes no sense.

There are other issues, as well... but ultimately, the main issue is that they shot the damned sequence in a beer brewery with minimal (effectively NO) redressing. A few minor bits dropped in here and there... but the "cores" you see in those sequences are full of beer. Really. The nuEnterprise has Hop Drive!
Not only that, it totally broke from the rest of the ship's look, of spit-and-polish clean and shiny... every time we went from the bridge to the engine room, I was totally pulled out of the illusion of being on the Enterprise... it ruined the illusion, it ruined the continuity of the ship, and it just looked incredibly dumb.
again the point. Never been on a ship huh? The workspaces look NOTHING like the engineering spaces. Especially on research vessels and the like.
Have you spent much time on ships? Just curious...

I ask because, with the possible exception of cruise liners (which I don't consider as counting, by the way!) this statement is utter nonsense. Ships have certain features which are very consistent throughout. They typically have the same paint used throughout the interior, they have steel walls with steel buttresses and frame members which are very consistent throughout, and so on.

They also are COMPARTMENTALIZED. This is absolutely crucial... because if you have a compartment hulled, you need to ensure that the entire ship is not going to flood and sink. You NEVER... NEVER... NEVER... see this sort of huge, open space in a naval vessel. Certainly not in the engine compartments.

Hell, even if you've never been on a boat, surely you've seen a few submarine movies where one guy gets trapped on the other side of a pressure door while his compartment floods...and the guys on the other side know that they can't save him, because opening the hatch would kill everyone. This is just COMMON SENSE.

Okay... no water in space... but space is worse, not better. Because in a ship, you can end up with pockets of air... but in space, no such luck... penetrate the hull and everyone in that entire engineering compartment dies... unless you use a technobabble solution like "Structural compartmentalization forcefield thingamajigies."
The multiple cores thing was also absolutely stupid and retarded... the warp core IS what makes a Star Trek engine room... it is fucking iconic. I chock it up to the production team not knowing their heads from their asses, but it was a dumb move... the warp core, and the dilithium crystal chamber ARE what the Enterprise's engineering section is all about... for FORTY fucking years, the warp core has been the focal point, and centerpiece of any Trek engine room.

The idea of a "warp core" has only been around since 79. I chalk that one up to so called fans not knowing jack about TOS and thinking they do... cough....
Actually, that's not true... on two levels.

First... they did not invent "dilithium" for TMP, and they did not invent "matter/antimatter reactors" for TMP. Both were fully part of TOS from day one (well, very nearly so... see the "lithium" thread in here).

Second... in 1979, with TMP, they did not ever mention dilithium, and we were never shown a "dilithium crystal chamber." And there was no "warp core," there was a "vertical intermix chamber" and a "horizontal intermix chamber."

However... your point is accurate, if overblown a bit. The claim you're disputing is, in fact, inaccurate as well. We never saw anything remotely like the TNG-era "warp core" and "dilithium chamber" until TNG.

I reject the entire TNG-era conceptualization for TOS, by the way. There was no "warp core" in the TOS Enterprise. And while there was dilithium in several places in the ship, its use had nothing to do with the m/am reaction itself and had everything to do with converting that (otherwise unusable) energy into a useable form. Interestingly, this is also born out in ST-TWOK, where we see Spock working on "the main energizer"... the intent of the scene was that Spock was reseating dilithium crystals inside that podium. The reactor was working (very clearly the case due to visual evidence... the chamber was lit, after all!), but they couldn't use its output without reseating the crystals.

Last edited by Cary L. Brown; May 12 2009 at 01:47 AM.
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