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Old April 18 2009, 04:27 PM   #757
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Location: Ireland
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jaespol wrote: View Post
Whats with all the frickin analysing?
Well roughly 6 million years ago a group of apes broke away and started using their brains rather than relying purely upon instinct, and eventually they evolved into a species known as homo sapiens sapiens, which roughly translates into "very wise man". I personally find that name to be incredibly arrogant and demonstrably false, but that doesn't stop me from attempting to live up to it.

Why don't you just rate it on the enjoyability factor?
I do, and I have previously pointed out that I only start nit-picking episodes if I don't find it entertaining enough to prevent me from doing so. I didn't find Remember to be entertaining enough to stop me from poking holes in it while I was watching, and that resulted in me enjoying it less than I should have.

Remember was a great episode! Who cares if we didn't get to see how those people lived?

The old lady who transplanted the memory didn't see everything that was going on, obviously all we got to see was what she had experienced in her life.
And the biased viewpoint of one person is not a good standpoint to judge an entire civilisation.

Its unrealistic to say we should have seen the entire story whenever the old lady never did.
Which is why the episode shouldn't have judged an entire civilisation.

Jimmy Bob wrote: View Post
I was refering to this: "For all we know the propaganda could be true, they could be unruly and trying to bring down normal society."

And this: "As I also said, the episode doesn't show us what life was like for these Regressives, we are just led to believe that they weren't really a threat to society. I don't agree with the death penalty, but I could understand why some societies would use it if there was extremist groups trying to undermine society."

Which to me reads: "In some cases genocide is great fun" and so I paraphrased it in humorous exaggeration.
I'm still lost. How can that possibly be paraphrased into "genocide is fun"?

The Regressives could have been like the Amish in that they were a community which shunned modern technology and lifestyles, or they could have been like Islamic extremists who commit vile acts because they want to transform western society into their narrow vision of the world. Without exploring the Regressives properly we have no way of knowing which of these two groups they were closest to, so it is impossible to judge the supposed atrocities.

If you were to suggest to me that we should kill all the Amish because you fear their lifestyle then I would oppose you and think you are dangerous. If you were to suggest to me that we should kill all Islamic extremists because you fear them then I would also oppose you but I would understand your viewpoint and wouldn't judge you so harshly.

My position is a far cry from "genocide is fun", when it comes to matters like this I view them very soberly.

"Lots of modern democracies saw vile acts during the struggle for their foundation, including my own. That doesn't make the acts right, but it doesn't invalidate the society which forms from them."

Yes it does, if them vile acts are hushed over to portray the founders as representatives of traditional idyllic family values and so on. "Thou shallt not built your house on bullshit, for bullshit is not solid," it's in the bible somewhere.
The Bible holds no weight with me.

Every country in the world does this. You rightly said that the Americans do this, the British largely ignore most of the atrocities performed in the name of their empire, and there was horrible actions performed during Ireland's war of independence. It still doesn't invalidate the liberal democratic societies which those countries now are.

I saw a TV show once which told the story of a horrible act performed during the Irish WoI. There was a rich protestant who had a farm near a village of mostly catholics, and during the WoI there was rumours that the protestant land-owner may have been informing the British forces about members of the IRA. So the IRA and the catholics in the village stormed into his house, captured the family and burned the house down. They decided to execute the land-owner and his son, so they lined them up and shot them... in the balls. They left them to bleed to death with the most agonising pain imaginable over the next two days. Even if the man was guilty, and there is no evidence that he was, there is no way he deserved such a horrible death.

But I'm glad that there was a war of independence, even though I am sure there was many such vile acts carried out in the name of Irish freedom. Today is apparently the 60th anniversary of Ireland becoming a republic, and that wouldn't have happened had it not been for that war.
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