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Old March 28 2009, 04:35 AM   #14
Shaw
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Location: Twin Cities
Re: Long-Winded Treknology: The Original Series

Well, it is interesting in that a lot of this depends on Alan Sinclair's drawings being accurate to the 11 foot model. Sadly, they aren't.

Are they the most accurate plans available to the public? I'd have to say that on the whole... no. While both Casimiro and Sinclair have errors (some of which are totally different from each other), overall Casimiro's plans are better.

A few years ago (when I thought this was a well covered subject) I believed that one could get away with merging the best elements of both Casimiro and Sinclair into a super set of 11 foot plans. Unfortunately, while addressing the issues each got wrong on their own, it did nothing to solve the issues that both plans missed together.


Could they be fixed with the help of someone else's plans? Sure. Sasser's plans are quite nice, aridas sofia's plans are very nice, and Gary Kerr's plans are great too. But that was a lot of stuff to try to work together (some of which isn't meant for public consumption), so I decided to start over from scratch.

Given that, am I worried that my sketches from more than a year ago don't match up with Sinclair... not really. Sinclair is the worst available window placement reference, so that plus the fact that I stated that the finalized deck placement would have to wait for my finalized exterior plans means those are super old sketches that are at best a general outline of where I was heading.

Whorfin wrote: View Post
The most logical conclusion, to this observer, is that the 11' studio model was not planned with this sort of deck placement in mind, rather there were more decks in the original design the model was based on. Alternately, the model builders scrapped the design given to them for window placement and substituted a largely incompatible one instead.
Well, here is something you should try... making a timeline.

When were which windows placed where?

The WWWWPW question brings up some interesting aspects of the models history. First, the original windows weren't functioning at all, they were just painted on. The second attempt at putting windows on the model required drilling holes into the wood and using plexiglas tubes to help illuminate them (one would generally assume that those early lit windows are in the same places... but I haven't, so I've been cross checking their placement). The third time around, the producers just wanted more windows, period.

See, originally there were only three rows of windows on the secondary hull... two above and one below the pendant on the side. But Jefferies did draw onto the original plans where he wanted the windows to go (when his hand was forced and Roddenberry insisted on windows). That window placement (which was followed pretty closely on the 33 inch model) is significantly off from the 11 foot model. My original deck levels sketch was based on an early assumption that the original window placement by Jefferies on the construction plans were pretty closely followed in the dorsal. They were not, and when I move from the sketch phase to final placement phase I'll be going off of the final placement of windows that I have reached in my year long study of the 11 foot model (as opposed to using someone else's studies and hoping they were as thorough as I would have liked).


My current plan is to make the deck levels in the dorsal match the windows on the 11 foot model as it appeared in The Cage. Similarly, the upper two rows of the windows on the side of the secondary hull are associated with the upper and lower levels of the engineering deck (which is, based on Jefferies 1967 and 1977 drawings a double height deck). I can adjust the next deck down (which is associated with the last row of original windows) as needed.

Please note... very important... Sinclair's windows on the rim of the primary hull are wrong. That is not how the models windows are actually placed, they are actually too close together to make for nice placement for two decks.




On a side note... your studies seem to be time challenged.

In the case of the 11 foot model, you seem to want to forget that it has three different states for how it appeared on screen, and it reached those states under different conditions. What they were trying to do in the beginning, what they did in the interim, and what was finally done for the series were all greatly effected by environmental factors which often had more to do with how the model looked on screen rather than how true they were being to Jefferies' vision of the ship.

In a very similar manner, you seem to not understand that I am sharing sketches of ideas... works in it's most raw states, trying out ideas to see if they fit or not. More than a year ago when I started, I decided not to use Sinclair or Casimiro (for the reason stated above) and so my internal sketches were based on very early external sketches of the 11 foot model. Those raw early external sketches were fine for playing with ideas, but I stated many times that none of that stuff was even close to finalized... in fact, none of that stuff will be used (other than concepts) in the final plans. There are aspects (with relation to the actual filming model) from my sketches a year ago that have no reflection on where things are going... and I stated as much back then.

People who don't understand that I'm sharing the research and thought processes behind all this when reaching conclusions about it have made me consider not sharing this stuff until it is finished.

Your conclusions based on a sketch of concepts I shared with the community a year ago based on the fact that it was in all possibility not where I was going and ignoring that fact gives me great paws. Are you the only person that doesn't understand that distinction? I don't know.

But you are looking at what I've been sharing in the same way that you've been looking at the 11 foot model and Jefferies work, so I'm willing to assume that this is unique to how you see this stuff (sort of like trying to watch a movie by overlaying every frame on top of each other and looking at them all at once... and missing the plot because of it). It is an interesting form of analysis where the idea is to hide the important information in a massive flood of details of things that change over time.

I would be interested in your points of view of life in general. I imagine that the fact that people move from childhood to adolescence to adulthood to middle-age and finally old age runs counter to how you view people. Is the child the same person as the senior citizen all those years later? Most of us understand that the progression of things has profound effects, but that they can still be the same thing over it's lifetime. If you can't see the stages in my work, in Jefferies' work or in the 11 foot model, is this also true of how you see life in general?

Just an interesting question.
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