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Old March 26 2009, 10:51 AM   #75
Fleet Captain
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Yes, that's right, Joss Whedon hates men, and all male characters on his show are either monsters or wusses. That's why the characters that came closest to destroying the world, Willow and Glory, were female, and why the character who betrayed Buffy and her friends to try to destroy the world was female -- and why the character who stopped her was male. That's also why Anya was portrayed as a character with a horrific past whose choice to try to go back to that past was an evil choice she'd have to recover from, and that's why sympathetic characters like Riley and Angel (not Angelus) were male.

Because Joss Whedon hates men.

Whedon's characters are complex moral actors with flaws and virtues, and not a one of 'em, male or female, hasn't shifted from monster to hero to wuss at some point or other.
You really want to hold up Riley and Angel as examples of Joss Whedon writing positive male characters ? Riley ? We are talking about the guy who was letting vampires feed off of him behind his girlfriends' back. As for Angel, he freely admitted that having a soul did not make him good or what he did okay. He was Angelus with a conscience, that's it. Good guy Angel allowed a room full of human Wolfram and Hart lawyers to die and tried to murder Wesley in his hospital bed.

The principle difference between the male and female characters, especially in Buffy, is that there was always an excuse when the women did something wrong and very often it's because of something a man did.

Anya was betrayed by a man, Angelus drove Drusilla insane, Willow went insane because Warren murdered Tara, the list goes on and on and on.

Anya murdered a room full of men, that might have been undone afterwards but she still chose to do it. What were the consequences ? She was forgiven almost immediately and accepted back in to the Scooby Gang.

Wesley, on the other hand, was nearly killed while trying to do the right thing because he honestly believed that Connor was in danger and what did he get for it ? Angel tried to kill him and then he was left out in the cold.

I'm not saying Joss hates men, I'm saying he could write his characters a little bit more equally.
What about Giles? I know he has a terrible past, but he's clearly fully on the side of good by the time we meet him, and he never puts a foot wrong, does he? Or Xander - ok, kind of a wuss, but he is surrounded by people with superpowers and he still does his best - barring a couple of unfortunate incidents.
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