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Old March 10 2009, 03:57 PM   #137
Christopher
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Vestboy wrote: View Post
There is a difference between a potential danger, and consequences for actual actions. If a human crew member attacked a fellow crewmember, or abandoned his post, I would hate to think it would be considered acceptable because, hey, fight-or-flight instincts. Because at the end of the day, it's not about what his species-based instincts are; it's about what he did.
So now you've abandoned your former argument that it's his instincts we should be worried about and are reverting to one I've already responded to. See above about precedents for crewmembers not being prosecuted for actions they committed under external mental influence.


That... is some rather spurious logic. That's stalker I'm-doing-this-because-I-love-you logic. Anything is justified, even if the imagined goal isn't being achieved. Namely, there was NO ACTUAL DANGER to the baby, until he kidnapped Deanna and put her, the baby and himself in the center of a hostage situation.
That is not the point at all. You're twisting it. Nobody's denying that Ree acted inappropriately, and I've explained why his judgment was compromised through no fault of his own. My point is that his parenting instinct is not something that's automatically dangerous, as you alleged it to be. Under normal circumstances, in 999,999 cases out of a million, the Pahkwa-thanh parenting instinct keeps their children safe.

You really need to make up your mind. When I explain why Ree's actions were not malevolent in intent but the result of a misdirected instinct, you condemn the instinct. When I explain that the instinct is not intrinsically a threat, you shift right back to condemning Ree as some kind of psychopath. It sounds to me like you just have it in for Ree and won't accept any argument that exonerates him.


Except for the fact that, in this circumstance, there was no significant danger, except in Ree's delusions.
Again, you're shifting the goalposts at random here. You were saying that the instinct itself was to blame. My whole point is that you can't condemn the instinct because his perceptions were distorted and the instinct was therefore being misapplied. And you can't condemn his perceptions because they were distorted by external influence. But you seem to want to paint him alternately as a psychopath who's personally to blame and an innately savage monster whose whole species is to blame.


I'm getting that from the text itself, from where Riker essentially says they'll have the hearing quickly, and there's no sense that it will be treated as a serious inquiry. Rather Riker says, "He needs this. He's obviously very guilty about what he did-- I think he wants to feel he's paid his dues." The big thing I'm reading out of that is that Riker really feels there aren't any dues to be paid, and it's just a matter of doing the paperwork regulations require, as well as giving Ree some guilt-assuaging therapy, before letting things go back to normal. Which, instinct and psychic influence aside, is a pretty blasť attitude to have for Kidnapping an Officer, Assault, Shuttle Theft and a massive Prime Directive violation.
That's ridiculous. Just because Riker was reassuring his wife on that particular aspect of the case doesn't mean he was unaware of the other concerns.

And I'm not going to reiterate the argument about crimes committed under external influence. I will point out that "massive Prime Directive violation" is gross hyperbole -- as the novel made clear, there was no real harm done in the end. And Riker's hardly in a position to be judgmental about Prime Directive violations after what happened on Droplet -- with everyone involved being in their right minds at the time. At least Ree has an excuse. Not that you're interested in hearing it.
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