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Old February 24 2009, 08:03 PM   #364
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
 
Re: A Singular Destiny review thread (possible spoilers)

Those nations have formed and broken alliances with each other many, many times over the centuries, whenever it was in their strategic interest to do so.
True. During their history, UK France Germany Spain etc formed tranzitory alliances - two countries ally themselves to defeat a third, both knowing that, after their victory, the alliance will be over, that they may well jump at each other's throats.
And true. You don't need "ethical maturity" for that.

The Typhon Pact - and extended Khitomer Accords - did all that in 3-5 years.
Agression and xenophobia were defining characteristics for some of the now allied species - these attributes were among the few constants that existed throughout the entire known history of these people. But hey, that was 5 years ago, right? At least, the Federation took a lot longer to coalesce.
You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right?

How can aggressive and xenophobia be defining characteristics of these civilizations if they're able to come together in the space of three to five years and form a single state?
EXACTLY. Agression and xenophobia cannot be defining characteristics of species who come together in order to inaugurate an era of peace and understanding.
And yet, cannon - and most books - establish that agressionn and xenophobia toward the Federation and toward each other are part of the make-up of most Typhon Pact members.
Conclusion: Thr Typhon Pact only came together to give the Federation and its allies a bloody nose. Of course, after the devastation caused by the borg, they don't have the resources to start a war. A cold war, on the other hand, is all but inevitable.
That's a rather irresponsible generalization. Of course the people that a given culture are adversarial toward are going to see them as aggressive and xenophobic.
The members of the typhon pact were shown, in cannon, to be xenophobic towards everyone, including each other. Give me cannon examples of them being anything but xenophobic, if you wish to prove your point - and I'm not talking about a small faction with no power in their society; I'm talking about their policies and actions as a species.
And there's nothing fake about Iran's hate for the occidentals.
Oh, come on, it's not a racial thing.
I never said - or implied - that it is. By "occidentals" I mean NATO in general and Americans in particular.
Iran may have good reasons to hate the Americans - the point is, the hate is real.
Just like the tzenkethi hate for the Federation is real, regardless of the reasons for it. As for who started the war - as I already said, the most probable scenario is that the tzenkethi started it.
I notice that my question from above wasn't answered. I'll ask again: where exactly in the movie is it established that the romulan conspirators didn't know from the beginning about Shinzon's plans about Earth?
Let's go to the script.
Donatra was the only one who had a problem with Shinzon crippling the Federation, by using his genocidal weapon. At present, she's empress of the IRS, a state friendly to the Federation.
Suran&co were satisfied that Shinzon will complete his criminal plan in two days - I wonder, what did they think Shinzon will do with his weapon?They had a problem with the ""showing proper respect" thing.

The Gorn.
"All their canonical contacts with the Federation" means "Arena." Period.
Correct. Let's see what happens in that episode.
A federation colony exists on Cestus III, near uncharted space. The inhabitants have no ideea that the gorn claim the system as their own. They have no idea that the gorn even exist - and the gorn suspect that, at the very least!
The gorn come and, by using overwhelming firepower, disable the colony's defenses. Then they kill EVERYONE IN THE COLONY - MAN, WOMAN, CHILD. They have the ability to comunicate with humans, as is established in the same episode, but they're not interested in communication. They don't tell the colonists to evacuate because Cestus III is a gorn planet. They dont't listen to the colonist's attempts at communication, they don't care that the colonists surrender. They kill everyone - well, exept for a badly wounded human.
Then, they try to set a trap for Enterprise, by sending false messages to the crew, demonstrating how easily they could have opened a line of dialog with the colonists. Apparently, Kirk's ship is the only powerful Starfleet ship in the region. Once Enterprise is destroyed, all federation colonies from the region will be vulnerable - one can only imagine the carnage, if the gorn's plan had succeeded.
And the gorn's justification: we killed invaders. Pfft!

This is definitely NOT how the Federation would have responded in a similar situation. The Federates would have tried to communicate with the aliens, they would not have fired unless fired upon, would have stopped the attack as soon as the colony's defenses were neutralized, would have tried to spare as many lives as possible, regardless of the cicumstances, etc etc.

The gorn make the klingons look tame!
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