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Old January 3 2009, 05:08 AM   #124
DWF
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: What do you dislike about The Dark Knight?

Erm, I didn't say, "truth from a certain point of view." What I suggested was that the Joker's memory is unreliable: From day to day, his memory of his pre-Jokerfied life changes. He was accurately reporting the memory of how he got his scars each time he recounts how he got his Glasgow smile -- it's just that his memory of how he got that smile changes from day to day.

A lie is a deliberate statement of false information, not an unknowning statement of inaccurate information.
There's no evidence at all in the movie that his memory is somehow faulty and IMO a lie is a lie is a lie no matter how you try an sugar coat it he lied more than once.

Erm, I don't know where anyone claimed that he didn't know what he was doing or what his actions meant. I never claimed he was insensate or insane. And clearly, he does make plans in the short run -- he makes plans for individual tactics. But I don't think he developed any "big picture" plans until he decided to try to destroy Gotham's belief in civil society by making Dent betray his beliefs and by getting the boats to blow each other up. And even that is only in the name of bringing anarchy and ending the rule of law.
And I didn't claim that he did have a big plan, just that he did preplan events, there's no other he could stay ahead of the curve as he claimed he doing. But Alfred pegged right though.


Bruce Wayne: [watching the tape the Joker broadcast on the news] Targeting me won't get their money back. I knew the mob wouldn't go down without a fight, but this is different. They crossed the line.
Alfred: You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed and hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation they turned to a man they didn't fully understand.
Bruce Wayne: Criminals aren't complicated, Alfred. We just need to figure out what he's after.
Alfred: With respect, Master Wayne, perhaps this is a man that you don't fully understand either. A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never met anyone who had traded with him. One day I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing the stones away.
Bruce Wayne: So why steal them?
Alfred: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
In the end that's the Joker's "big picture", but that doesn't mean his actions aren't preplanned to cause chaos.
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The greatest science fiction series of all time is
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--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
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