View Single Post
Old January 3 2009, 03:45 AM   #123
Sci's Avatar
Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: What do you dislike about The Dark Knight?

DWF wrote: View Post
Certainly the plot to try to capture Dent was set up with pre-planning -- I think he knew that Dent wasn't Batman and was explicitly hoping to either kill Batman or get himself captured so as to force Batman to choose either Dent or Rachel to save.

Most of his actions, though, I think were improvised. And I think the only lie he told in the film was the lie about where Rachel and Harvey were.

(He tells conflicting stories of his origins, but I don't think those are lies. There's a line in Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore where the Joker says that he remembers his past differently at different times. "Sometimes it's this way, sometimes it's that way.... If I have to have a past, I'd rather it be multiple choice!" I choose to interpret his stories about his past as being the absolute truth... as he remembers it at that time.)
He sets out telling the crime bosses he's going to kill Batman for them, then later tells Batman that he never meant to try and kill him.
He never says he never meant to kill Batman. He says that he doesn't, present tense. I'm amongst those who think he changed his mind, too.

And as for his origins, what's it's the truth "from a certain point of view"? Sorry but that's still a lie.
Erm, I didn't say, "truth from a certain point of view." What I suggested was that the Joker's memory is unreliable: From day to day, his memory of his pre-Jokerfied life changes. He was accurately reporting the memory of how he got his scars each time he recounts how he got his Glasgow smile -- it's just that his memory of how he got that smile changes from day to day.

A lie is a deliberate statement of false information, not an unknowning statement of inaccurate information.

And no in no way do I think he imporvised his way though the movie, from bank robbery at the start of the movie he knew what he was doing and what his actions meant.
Erm, I don't know where anyone claimed that he didn't know what he was doing or what his actions meant. I never claimed he was insensate or insane. And clearly, he does make plans in the short run -- he makes plans for individual tactics. But I don't think he developed any "big picture" plans until he decided to try to destroy Gotham's belief in civil society by making Dent betray his beliefs and by getting the boats to blow each other up. And even that is only in the name of bringing anarchy and ending the rule of law.
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote