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Old October 29 2008, 08:25 PM   #32
Caleuche
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

The Gill-Man wrote: View Post
You do realize that was not his first Angel episode, right?
Fair point. He was better used in his other episode (much better then on Buffy arguably.)
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Caleuche wrote: View Post
I always disliked the character of Andrew as I found it slightly homophobic in how everything about him was played for laughs. He was the guy who when the heroes were out fighting was hiding at home in his pinny and rubber gloves washing dishes. His obvious crushes on Warren/ Xander/ Spike were always used for cheap giggles. There was none of the respect that Willow/Tara got. They had character outside of their sexuality and their romantic life was always treated as seriously as any of the straight characters. So to be honest I find it slightly disturbing that a gay actor would so willingly contribute to such a stereotypical character.
Why can't you just accept that as his character? People like that do exist.
Yes and on television they exist more. The weak cowardly coded gay outnumbers the strong gay hero, what, a hundred to one? A thousand to one?
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
[Besides, saying there's nothing else to his character but his gayness is totally inaccurate. He was never even explicitly stated as gay, for one thing - we only assumed based on heavy hints. Other than that, there was his nerdiness, his wanting to follow the crowd to belong, his growth from "nothing is real" comic book life to "things have consequences" real life. None of those are necessarily or stereotypically gay attributes.
He was a one note joke in a show that invited the audience to laugh at a guy who wasn't a 'real man' and to stop anyone being too offended he was given his crush on Warren and his implied gayness.
The stereotypical attributes I was refering to was his feyness, his weakness, his general pathetic nature (highlighted by his nerdiness), his inabilty to fight and his cowardy moments. Now given that Buffys mantra was to subvert sterotypes (A show about the cheerleader/girls saving the guys) this was near unforgiveable and very lazy writing.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
[Joss has also depicted other kinds of gay men, like Larry, who was a jock and a fighter.
And a background character who was killed off far too early.
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
[ And other kinds of lesbians, like Kennedy, who was a mouthy princess.
Who as horrible as she may be was never treated as a joke. She was also Willows second girlfriend. When did we see any of Buffy or Angels gay man/men with boyfriends?

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
(Not to say anything about the fact that the first chance the Angel writers got they turned him straight.)
Also completely wrong. For one thing, the writers specified in the script that it should be boys and girls together that Andrew met at the door. I believe it was director's choice to eliminate the boys. And did it not occur to you that those girls might be Slayers under his command, and he was simply their chaperone? Can a guy not walk through a door with a girl without being labelled "straight" ?
Of course they can, and if it was the directors idea then sorry to the writers, but I believe Andrew actually says something along the lines of 'sometimes its time to try something new/different' (not the exact quote) and then walks off with the girls. I saw this as a suggestion that his implied gayness was only a phase and now he had grown up and matured (which was after all the whole theme of the episode) he had discovered girls. (And yes, I did assume them to be slayers, I also assumed the episode was impling he was sleeping with them.)

Last edited by Caleuche; October 29 2008 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Spelling.
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