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Old October 15 2008, 07:17 PM   #117
Geoff Thorne
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Re: I have read Titan #1, #2, & #3...reading #4

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post

Sorry...I tend to err on the side of formality on first meeting. My bad!
I'm just not big on titles. No worries.

There were definitely times I got the feeling--though I may be wrong--that some of the people trying to sideline Dakal did so not just because of his awkwardness, but because somewhere in them, they felt like he didn't belong there, as a Cardassian. Roakn especially...he needed to be whacked upside the head with a tire iron. (Which would probably just sting, in his case.)
I like Brikars because they're blunt and not particularly polite by nature. Teg Roakn is a bit of an ass (unlike the fantastically cool Zak Kebron). I wanted to show someone who is not necessarily intending to be offensive but is hurtful nonetheless. And the Pod Team's treatment of Dakal is (in theory) also an example of that subtle ostracization that "minorities" can suffer when people make certain assumptions.

The fact that not one SINGLE person put him in his place, though, was just as bad.
Jaza tells Roakn they will "discuss" his behavior towards Dakal later. Whether that discussion ever happened is up to whichever authors ever use Roakn again. Jaza's treatment of Dakal throughout the rest of that scene is a direct response to Roakn's bad attitude. "I don't believe in dunsel."

But to me, it was true to real life. I know that Roddenberry's original vision of the Trek universe wasn't like that, but I believe that people are such that they cannot purge all of their bad tendencies--only become more vigilant against them. And that once one way of expressing them is closed, another one will open that we will have to combat.
Keeeee-rect. And one thing a lot of folks forget is that Rodenberry conceived Star Trek under very specific social conditions in the USA. Things are similar now but in many many many ways very different. I don't think modern audiences will accept the perfect, "Aw shucks, aren't people swell" vision of the future presented [mostly] in [early] TNG. We're too complex for that.

And though I don't want to discuss the situation--I definitely know the feeling of experiencing a loss alone. And that was a very poignant part of reading that sequence, indeed.

Yeah, again--I know by having been there.
Me too.

I think I was wondering if there was something else at work, though. Did I completely hallucinate there being some reference on the show to Cardassians not wanting foreigners to view the bodies of their own? I found myself wondering (IF that reference was correct) if Dakal was feeling that sort of protectiveness for Jaza, and then being shocked that he was reacting so deeply that it was as though he'd lost a fellow Cardassian.
Hadn't thought of that but it sounds right.

I think I would've been hard-pressed not to get the screaming heebie jeebies myself, under those circumstances! An Irish wake, yeah--I could do that, but I would definitely have serious trouble going any further than that under any circumstances with a person I was not married to, let alone those. I mean, I have no problem with other cultures doing what they do, but there are certain things I just cannot bring myself to do, no matter what others are doing.

(I think maybe you're starting to see why I get Dakal...)
Well. Hsurri is a lovely person and the offer was culturally appropriate for her. Even if it was wrong for Dakal (at that moment), lots of humans deal with Death by celebrating Life in the best way they know how. For a lot of people that means sex. Again, I'm not endorsing or condemning that, only smashing the two opposites together to see what happens.

And, again, yes, Dakal is awesome cubed.

I really appreciated your taking the time to show Dakal needing the comforts of his home and people. We've really only seen Cardassian culture through its absolute worst representatives except in a few very isolated cases, and I just cannot think that there is nothing good or worthwhile there.


Regarding that ability to "love outside the box"...that is so sorely lacking in the world today it's disheartening. If anything, I see sectarian lines getting even more pervasive. Sure, we may have PC'ed the hell out of ourselves, but there are subtle ways of showing contempt (and some not so subtle, yet still somehow "acceptable") that seem to emerge in their place. I would like to hope someday the success stories will become more common.
IDIC, baby. It's the only way.

But I have to wonder something, in the case of the Trekiverse. If humanity's drawing together occurred in the face of First Contact...I wonder if there's a legitimate case to be made that it occurred in part because humans were now at liberty to define "in-group"/"out-group" differently? The behavior I'm seeing on the Titan at least to me seems to back up that theory. (And even on the canon series--there are SOOOO many statements of "They're Ferengi, of COURSE they're like that," or analogous statements that wouldn't be tolerated if said about a human subgroup.)
Well. It' a fine line. This is fiction, after all, meant to be read by humans in the 21st century. Most of the alien races in Star Trek were designed as foils to cast light on the Human condition. In the lit-verse we get to spin that a bit more than the TV guys can.

Dr. Bralik is not like a normal Ferengi even though, in some ways, she very much is. The half vulcan officer from CLB's TNG novel is NOTHING like Spock. Etc.

I think the "other" in Star Trek is meant to be those who are, for whatever reason, not capable of embracing difference in others. That's me. Mileage varies.

I love Dakal. I hope he survives Destiny.
Uh-oh...PLEASE tell me that's not a spoiler.
I have no knowledge of the events in DESTINY. I'm just about to start book One.

Last edited by Geoff Thorne; October 16 2008 at 01:37 AM.
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