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Old April 4 2008, 07:40 PM   #364
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Location: Twin Cities
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Reverend wrote:
I still stand by the assertion that what we might call a "creature comfort" is to the modern 23rd century Federation citizen what having a knife, fork and plate is to us.
Plus given the fabrication technology at their disposal, it seams giving cargo space over to "useless" items seams very inefficient compared to the more logical practice of storing raw materials in bulk and using them to fabricate whatever as and when it's wanted/needed, with the option to recycle object that are no longer wanted/required.
I don't recall stating anywhere that I thought that all this stuff was loaded onto the ship pre-made, but after a while Bloke would most likely have a good idea of what things are most requested and having such items on hand rather than making them on demand would be prudent. After all, all fast food could be made on demand, but good managers will prepare for a rush on popular items by making them early.

But this isn't the Enterprise D, and it doesn't have perfect fabrication abilities. The ability to create gems (as brought up in Catspaw) would seem to be pretty easy (as they are very basic). On the other hand, processing turkey and Rand's favorite perfume (as in Charlie X) proved to be more than they were able to do. But they still have perfume on hand (just not an infinite variety).

And you brought up the Nazi uniform... the boots made for McCoy didn't fit correctly. Which shows that just like today, if you rush in making something, the quality suffers.

Plus, who is to say that shopping requires inventory on hand... people could browse holographic representations of possible items, and then discuss what it would take to get such an item made.

Now, are we talking about strictly the Navy (or Starfleet) version of the Quartermaster? Lets run this through a quick test to see if it is or isn't...
1. Does the Quartermaster/Purser deal with both crew and civilians? (YES/NO)
2. Does the Quartermaster/Purser keep non-duty related things like perfume on hand? (YES/NO)
3. Does the Quartermaster/Purser in today's navy run the stores onboard ships (like the example I linked to earlier)? (YES/NO)
4. Does the Quartermaster/Purser deal with civilian mail at remote outposts? (YES/NO)
If the answer is to all of those is YES, then maybe we are... but if there was any NOs, then maybe we are talking about something different.

Is this like a Wal-mart or K-mart?

That wasn't what I was thinking by any stretch. It would serve the role of a frontier town store, you go to it (or in this case, it comes to you) for most of your basics, it has a few odd items above and beyond those (as I said, comfort items like perfume), it is where you might place an order for more specialized items (that aren't carried onboard and can't be fabricated, like the main circulation pump from Devil in the Dark), and postal services (sending and receiving packages like in Dagger of the Mind... though they didn't come on board to receive or drop off packages). So while some items (like clothes) could be made relatively quickly (though faster means the possibility of errors), other items (like perfume, phaser 2s, and an out dated circulation pump as examples) are either too hard to do quickly or beyond what is possible.

On a side note, I don't trust private enterprises in these areas. I look at companies like Halliburton and KBR as complete wastes of tax payers' money. How in the world did anyone get fooled into believing that for profit companies would do things either better or cheeper than a not-for-profit organization? They have to make a profit, so you are almost assured that when they start cutting corners, their margins will be the last thing to be cut (while safety seems to often be at the top of the list). So my general feeling is that other than things that are just so specialized that there is just no way to have that ability within the military itself (like aircraft construction), those areas should be divorced from the private sector. In other words, the military should be able to run it's own kitchens rather than have to pay KBR for that.

So yeah, while I'm sure that there are traders and other private enterprises out there in the TOS universe, I really doubt that anyone effectively marooned on some planet would want to risk their lives on any of these people.

Sure, if you're intentionally limiting yourself to purely what was seen in TOS then the other references don't apply. Personally I'm so used to thinking of them as one cohe...uh...vague related whole, that it becomes difficult to think of the shows as separate entities.


Thank you!
Remember, if you don't like what I'm doing, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing there own stuff. Heck, you can use as much of my stuff as you like (within the very liberal terms of the license I've used on my work), so arguing these points beyond where I'm willing to go is pointless.

USS Jack Riley wrote:
Shaw One other question I had for you, totally unrelated to the above. Does the placement of the "rust ring" on the dorsal side of the primary hull lend itself to being the doors that blow off to allow escape boats or life pods to quickly evacuate the ship?
Actually, no... it is just different paneling that weathered differently than the older paneling.

I don't believe that TOS had lifeboats or the like. We aren't talking about ships in the same way that a ship on the ocean could sink... these ship's don't sink (what would they sink into?). Every compartment is able to support itself in case of an emergency, so that covers keeping people safe. In the case of the warp engines blowing up (or the like), the primary hull would be the lifeboat.

The other thing is that these compartments (specially the ones on the outer edge) are completely replaceable. The windows on the outer edge of the primary hull changed and sky light types of windows were added... those changes only effected the outer most ring of the primary hull, so maybe those compartments were replaced. And in the process, the material used to replace the ship's outer skin in those areas weathered differently than the rest of the ship (leaving the rust ring we see later).

It also means that when looking at the Constellation in TOS, the damage wasn't all that bad (totally fixable). And the wider primary hull in TMP works if wider outer compartments were used when refitting the ship.

Having these compartments solves a ton of issues in TOS... and even in Phase II and TMP.

If memory serves, a true standing navy didn't come about until the War of 1812 and the ships that were used (among them the USS Constellation and her sister ship the USS Constitution...
One shouldn't forget that before 1812 we had to deal with pirates from the Barbary States (and was what led to the formation of the Marines as a standing force as I recall).
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