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Old April 4 2008, 12:51 AM   #351
Reverend
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
Wait a second... How in the world are you taking two (or maybe three decks) at about 20 feet wide and maybe 40 feet long and turning that into K-Mart? And why would anyone want snow globes and fridge magnets?
Well keep in mind I'm a Brit and K-Mart is the only American shop I can name.
Perhaps a petrol station convenience shop would be a slightly better analogy?

Basically what I'm talking about is the type of store that would have been in a military fort in the western North American continent before those territories were states. The only difference is that this one comes to you as it is impractical for these people to travel to a StarBase or well settled colony.
So what specifically would you suppose would be on offer in this shop? I ask because I honestly can't think of anything other than knick knacks that wouldn't already be obtainable though the galley or the QM.

As for stores and the military... I grew up in Coronado and spent a ton of time at North Island Naval Air Station (where we had the Kitty Hawk, Constellation and Independence stationed) and the Naval Amphibious Base. These types of things seem pretty normal to me... in fact, the only McDonald's in Coronado when I was growing up was the one on base. So the type of thing I'm talking about is definitely not outside of the boundaries of the plausible.
Sure, on a modern navy ship, but as I said by the 23rd century things that we would consider luxuries (never mind comforts) are readily available. It's not like people have to pay mess subs, buy there own uniform, the local paper or the latest DVD. Again I think were we're not on the same page is exactly what would a potential customer be looking for?

Throughout Star Trek starships paying call on remote outposts have offered their faculties as a change of scenery for those who have been isolated for extended stretches. I have to believe that that would be part of the ship's function out on the frontier... to help keep the frontier productive. I doubt that anyone would want to stake their lives on traders like Mudd or Jones, who would be just as likely to never stop by again as to overcharge for the simplest of items.
Of course not, I imagine they stake their lives on the regular supply ships from whatever organisation that is responsible for the Federations colonisation programs. I imagine ships like the Enterprise wouldn't be their primary source of resupply. On the odd occasion they would lend aid and relief I'm sure the crew's already ample facilities would suffice and I just have trouble imagining them leaving over even that much space that has not use other than to cater for the odd visitor and lay fallow in the mean time.

I think there is a massive gap between materially driven and the comforts of home. I'm not materially driven, but do own pictures, books and other comfort items. I don't live to acquire wealth (I live to acquire knowledge), but I don't shun things either.

Look at any of the crews cabins and you'll see... stuff. Are they materially driven because they have that stuff?
Granted, but as I said, the items you just listed I imagine would be produced on an as needed basis. Want a copy Thatched Cottage at Cordeville? Go down to stores and have a copy printed off on realistic imitation canvas with genuine oil paint texture effect. Want a hardback copy of Moby Dick? Just as easy and they can even make it look weathered and add that old musty book smell. Remember, this is a time where in a matter of minutes you can have three authentic sets of "tailor fitted" Nazi uniforms complete with medals, embroidery, insignia, cap, "leather" boots and (I think) replica weapons. Given the 3D printers and quick prototypers that are around today it's easy to imagine that in 250 odd years they are capable of making almost anything in the database, even before transporter based replicas were perfected.

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
Tallguy wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
I totally agree on the whole "Starfleet isn't the Military" issue. Overtly militant fan designs are a huge pet peeve of mine! Can't stand the bloody things and don't get me started on "Starfleet Marines"!.
So who does the Federation call when war is declared upon them? (If there's an answer to this that isn't "Starfleet" then that's really cool.)
The Security Corps.

Starfleet seems to be a descendant of Navy, Coast Guard and NOAA. I tend to think of the "Navy" part that we've seen as being largely defensive and incorporated within the NOAA/ Coast Guard part. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its overarching historical dominance led to it providing the structure and tradition to Starfleet, even though many of those traditions were a part of the Coast Guard and NOAA as well.

And yet, I think a believable scenario for the hostile environment portrayed in TOS would lead to there being, in reserve, some serious force that we never saw. Purely military and largely uncrewed, serious -- very serious -- flying weaponry. The kind of thing that would clearly reveal just how much the Fleet had learned from encounters with aggressors like the Doomsday Machine, Nomad or V'ger. The culture would prevent this force from being activated until needed, but fear would demand it be there, in waiting, just in case.
My main issue with Starfleet being "military" is the implication that the Federation has a standing army ready to let rip and kick ass.
We know they don't, we've seen them at war and it IS the same Starfleet officers who would otherwise be studying nebula, charting planets and causing temporal paradoxes. The thing is we tend to get stuck with our preconceptions as to what a defensive force should be and what a life guard or police service should be. As worrying as it may sound, Starfleet is all of them and at the same time none of them. Explorers and scientist trained in combat, pilots dedicated to exploration and law enforcement.
Today such an organisation would be more powerful than the government it serves and nobody in their right mind would trust it as far as you can comfortable spit a double decker bus...but it's Star Trek and somehow they get away with it.
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