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Elemental July 15 2009 08:27 AM

The Typhon Pact
 
What exactly was the motivation towards the formation of the Typhon Pact? It's been a while since I read ASD... I know it was stated that the president outbid the Tholians (or something like that) in hiring the aid of the Orion Syndicate for protection against the Borg, but I'm not sure how this inconsequential and seemingly little event should tip the scales far enough for a whole multitude of races to form what seems like it should be an extremely unstable alliance. As is stated, most of these races are extremely xenophobic, so why are they working together? I know it will have something to do with Federation arrogance or some such... With the Federation as bloodied as it's ever been, what is the Pact hoping to achieve?

Jono July 15 2009 08:34 AM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Wasn't it Breen mercs that the Ferengi hired to help the Federation not the Orion Syndicate?

Deranged Nasat July 15 2009 10:01 AM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Elemental wrote: (Post 3191125)
What exactly was the motivation towards the formation of the Typhon Pact? It's been a while since I read ASD... I know it was stated that the president outbid the Tholians (or something like that) in hiring the aid of the Orion Syndicate for protection against the Borg, but I'm not sure how this inconsequential and seemingly little event should tip the scales far enough for a whole multitude of races to form what seems like it should be an extremely unstable alliance. As is stated, most of these races are extremely xenophobic, so why are they working together? I know it will have something to do with Federation arrogance or some such... With the Federation as bloodied as it's ever been, what is the Pact hoping to achieve?

The motivation differs from member nation to member nation, but essentially most of them simply desired more influence in galactic affairs and presumably got a bit of a shock due to the Borg invasion. Things have been shaken up considerably: the Borg invasion demonstrated once and for all that those who stand alone are vulnerable, while the traditional superpowers, the United Federation of Planets and Klingon Empire, were hit hard and have been reduced in status. The six Typhon Pact members see an opportunity to "step up" and assume the position of local superpower. The Tholians are the only one so far whose motivation is clearly hostile; it was they who took exception to Bacco's outmaneuvering them with the Breen mercenaries (and Orions) and seem to think cold war with the Federation is inevitable. They also seem to want to spite the Federation and essentially say "ha ha, we're more powerful than you now, so you'd better watch out". The other members don't share this motivation. The Gorn simply seem to want to become more influential, and are not as far as we know hostile (their relationship with the Federation is a good one). The Romulan Star Empire wants to get its own superpower status back after its losses since "Nemesis" reduced it to being dependent on Federation aid (an affront to the proud Romulans, I'm sure). It too is not necessarily hostile, and Ambassador Kavalak displayed gratitude to President Bacco, as I recall. The Kinshaya want protection against Klingon aggression and invasion (and seemingly, gods willing, the opportunity to maybe do some aggressive invading back...). The Breen are still a mystery, but given how their last plan for increased influence failed (the Dominion) and how careful they are anyway I doubt hostility is the primary motivation. The Tzenkethi hate the Federation, but there's no evidence their motivation was anything other the same desire for influence and protection. Tensions are certainly high, and rivalry with the Federation is a certainty, but other than that, we'll have to wait and see. :)

As for the instability and xenophobia, as others have pointed out in other threads, the Coalition of Planets was no different...

Sci July 15 2009 11:56 AM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Elemental wrote: (Post 3191125)
What exactly was the motivation towards the formation of the Typhon Pact? It's been a while since I read ASD... I know it was stated that the president outbid the Tholians (or something like that) in hiring the aid of the Orion Syndicate for protection against the Borg, but I'm not sure how this inconsequential and seemingly little event should tip the scales far enough for a whole multitude of races to form what seems like it should be an extremely unstable alliance. As is stated, most of these races are extremely xenophobic, so why are they working together?

You might as well ask the same thing about the primary member states of the European Union. Britain, Germany, and France all have long histories of aggression, xenophobia, ethnocentrism, racism, imperialism, and dictatorship, and goodness knows they've all gone to war with one-another dozens of times over.

And yet the European Union exists and doesn't look like it's going anywhere any time soon.

Paris July 15 2009 12:54 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Not only is the Typhon Pact full of races that seem to oddly matched...just look at the "Khitomer Pact".
-The Federation and the Klingons have been allies for the better part of a century, except for that little war in 2372.
-The Imperial Romulan State, when they were part of the Romulan Star Empire, has been at war with both the Federation and the Klingons before. Long standing grudges still exist.
-The Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance fought against the Cardassians when they were a part of the Dominion.
-The Federation and the Ferengi were also hostile towards each other, although not always openly (Maxia Zeta in 2355), in the 2360's.

Romulans think everyone else is inferior compared to themselves, and so did the Cardassians, for quite some time. It will be interesting to see if the new "Khitomer Pact" is better at working together than the Typhon Pact. Remember...the Typhon Pact formed first, while the "Khitomer Pact" was formed as a response. Maybe the Khitomer nations aren't as prepared to work together as the Typhon nations are...

Deranged Nasat July 15 2009 01:15 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3191525)
Remember...the Typhon Pact formed first, while the "Khitomer Pact" was formed as a response. Maybe the Khitomer nations aren't as prepared to work together as the Typhon nations are...

Indeed. The Typhon Pact is a closely-knit alliance (shared currency) whereas the Khitomer Accord expansion was hastily thrown together in response (and technically we still don't know if all or any of the invited nations joined). :)

Christopher July 15 2009 03:10 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Basically, the motivation behind the Typhon Pact was that Bacco browbeat these nations into working together with their Federation rivals for the greater good, and it worked, and so they got to thinking, "Hey, this working-together-for-mutual-benefit thing works pretty well... but do we really need to include the Federation? If it worked for them, why can't it work for us independently of them, and make us collectively strong enough that they can't push us around anymore?"

MNM July 15 2009 03:13 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3191525)
Not only is the Typhon Pact full of races that seem to oddly matched...just look at the "Khitomer Pact".
-The Federation and the Klingons have been allies for the better part of a century, except for that little war in 2372.
-The Imperial Romulan State, when they were part of the Romulan Star Empire, has been at war with both the Federation and the Klingons before. Long standing grudges still exist.
-The Federation/Klingon/Romulan alliance fought against the Cardassians when they were a part of the Dominion.
-The Federation and the Ferengi were also hostile towards each other, although not always openly (Maxia Zeta in 2355), in the 2360's.

Romulans think everyone else is inferior compared to themselves, and so did the Cardassians, for quite some time. It will be interesting to see if the new "Khitomer Pact" is better at working together than the Typhon Pact. Remember...the Typhon Pact formed first, while the "Khitomer Pact" was formed as a response. Maybe the Khitomer nations aren't as prepared to work together as the Typhon nations are...

That's getting ahead of things. There is no "Khitomer Pact" at the moment. The last book to mention that only said certain nations had been invited to attend a summit to discuss possible expansion of the Accords, and not even all of those nations had responded to that invitation at that point.

Paris July 15 2009 03:18 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
^Didn't the IRS already say yes :vulcan:? Maybe i'm remembering wrong...

Either way. With the Typhon Pact already formed, the Ferengi, Talarians and Cardassians will probably say yes, just to shore up their security. They are all "friends" of the UFP by this point anyways. I guess we'll find out for sure in 15 months...

EmperorKalan July 15 2009 03:18 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Deranged Nasat wrote: (Post 3191269)
The Tholians are the only one so far whose motivation is clearly hostile; it was they who took exception to Bacco's outmaneuvering them with the Breen mercenaries (and Orions) and seem to think cold war with the Federation is inevitable. They also seem to want to spite the Federation and essentially say "ha ha, we're more powerful than you now, so you'd better watch out".

The Tholians also explicitly still have a chip on their shoulder (so to speak) about the events of the Vanguard series from nearly a century and a quarter previous.

MNM July 15 2009 03:21 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3191772)
^Didn't the IRS already say yes :vulcan:? Maybe i'm remembering wrong...

Either way. With the Typhon Pact already formed, the Ferengi, Talarians and Cardassians will probably say yes, just to shore up their security. They are all "friends" of the UFP by this point anyways. I guess we'll find out for sure in 15 months...

From what I remember Donatra's Romulans and the Ferengi agreed to attend, nothing more.

Personally I dont actually think many of the nations mentioned will join up anyway. At most maybe the IRS will forge a few closer ties, but I just dont see any of the others joining something so formal with the Federation.

Paris July 15 2009 03:56 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
^I think the majority will. The Klingons are already in. The Ferengi, as led by Rom, are already pretty close to the UFP, and with this new power coming around with their own currency, they may want to finally solidify that alliance. I think Grand Nagus Rom /the Ferengi were the first to say yes to Bacco's plea for ships at the Azure Nebula showdown in Destiny if i'm not mistaken; and the Federation has been the biggest help in restoring Cardassia after the Dominion ravaged Cardassia Prime. A firm alliance would be good for Cardassia. Especially if it means that the Klingons will be allies as opposed to a potential enemy. The IRS will probably join, at least loosly, to counter the the new strength of the RSE. The Talarians may not join, but who really cares about them anyways ;)?

JD July 15 2009 05:36 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
I really don't think that the expanded Khitomer Accord will neccissarily be building any kind of Khitomer Pact, at this point I'm thinking it will probably just be more of the kind of alliance the Federation and Klingons have ATM. They'll agree to work together, and end any kind of hostilities but won't become one nation.

Paris July 15 2009 06:38 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
I was using the term "Khitomer Pact" to describe the group that seems to be forming. I didn't actually mean to imply that said group was going to formalize the way the Typhon Pact did. The UFP and the Klingons have been aligned for years in the Khitomer accords, and they don't share everything. It would, by my understanding, be the same type of alliance for the other proposed members.

Everyone keeps their own economies, their own ships and their own governments. I'll use "Khitomer Accords" from now on :)

Hartzilla2007 July 15 2009 06:53 PM

Re: The Typhon Pact
 
Quote:

Paris wrote: (Post 3192436)
I was using the term "Khitomer Pact" to describe the group that seems to be forming. I didn't actually mean to imply that said group was going to formalize the way the Typhon Pact did. The UFP and the Klingons have been aligned for years in the Khitomer accords, and they don't share everything.

Actually in A Time for War A Time for Peace I believe it was mentioned that the Klingons and Federation share technology becasue of the Khitomer Accords.


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