The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek Movies XI+ (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50)
-   -   Was the Temporal Integrity Commission/Relativity/Daniels on vacation? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=92845)

roguephoenix March 17 2009 12:25 AM

Was the Temporal Integrity Commission/Relativity/Daniels on vacation?
 
just made me wonder if this was an alteration in the timeline, wouldn't the relativity (or other time ship at the federation's dispense in the future) had jumped back to try and stop this? or could it be that in the timeline that created that future with that ship, this event had to have happened so in their view this was the correct timeline and needed to happen. stands to reason that if the federation had become aware of time travel tech earlier they would have been able to "perfect" it more by the time the relativity was to be built. it's not like this event would be out of the scope of the relativity as they don't seem to be affected by the changes in timeline when they occur.

OneBuckFilms March 17 2009 12:28 AM

Re: Relativity
 
The Relativity might not be aware of the Alternate Universe, or it simply could be a part of Base History, as the original timeline (aka Prime Universe) is still intact.

So the Narada and Spock go through a time portal, and simply disappear as far as the Prime Universe is concerned.

Meanwhile,hen they reach the past, a new Universe is created in parallel, where Spock and the Narada change things, and we have the movie.

Brent March 17 2009 01:00 AM

Re: Relativity
 
That question could be asked for every time travel episode in the history of Trek, why was the Relativity or other time ships never there to correct the problem in the timeline?

Cause up until the episode Relativity, it didn't exist! :p

donners22 March 17 2009 01:07 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

Brent wrote: (Post 2720017)
That question could be asked for every time travel episode in the history of Trek, why was the Relativity or other time ships never there to correct the problem in the timeline?

Cause up until the episode Relativity, it didn't exist! :p

Or perhaps the changes were meant to happen, and they just sat back quietly and let matters unfold. What do they call it, pre-destination paradox or some such?

Neutrino March 17 2009 01:26 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Well we know that when Daniels plucked Archer out of the Enterprise turbo lift it caused an immediate effect to the future and they ended up on a destroyed Earth where the Federation never came to be. I think there's a ripple through time and if the future Temporal agency doesn't act fast enough and send a ship like the Relativity they become a casualty of the altered timeline.
I believe it's reasonable to think that perhaps the time travelling of Spock and Nero has caused a change to the future and they did not act fast enough before succumbing to the timeline change so as far as the new future Temporal agency is concerned the events of Nero in the 23rd century are part of history that must be left to take place.

roguephoenix March 17 2009 01:39 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

Neutrino wrote: (Post 2720115)
Well we know that when Daniels plucked Archer out of the Enterprise turbo lift it caused an immediate effect to the future and they ended up on a destroyed Earth where the Federation never came to be. I think there's a ripple through time and if the future Temporal agency doesn't act fast enough and send a ship like the Relativity they become a casualty of the altered timeline.
I believe it's reasonable to think that perhaps the time travelling of Spock and Nero has caused a change to the future and they did not act fast enough before succumbing to the timeline change so as far as the new future Temporal agency is concerned the events of Nero in the 23rd century are part of history that must be left to take place.

the thing is that the relativity is outside the reach of time changes isn't it? else they wouldn't know if things went the way they want them to. which is why i was thinking that this change in the timeline is what enabled the creation of the relativity and it's ability to detach itself from time.

Quote:

donners22 wrote: (Post 2720042)
Quote:

Brent wrote: (Post 2720017)
That question could be asked for every time travel episode in the history of Trek, why was the Relativity or other time ships never there to correct the problem in the timeline?

Cause up until the episode Relativity, it didn't exist! :p

Or perhaps the changes were meant to happen, and they just sat back quietly and let matters unfold. What do they call it, pre-destination paradox or some such?

yea i was thinking the same thing. this had to happen in order for the timeline where the relativity was to exist to become. stands to reason early exposure to time travel tech made the federation more aware earlier and pursue this tech more aggressively leading to the development of a practical time travel ship (or ships, not sure if relativity was one of a kind)

Neutrino March 17 2009 01:50 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

roguephoenix wrote: (Post 2720153)
the thing is that the relativity is outside the reach of time changes isn't it? else they wouldn't know if things went the way they want them to. which is why i was thinking that this change in the timeline is what enabled the creation of the relativity and it's ability to detach itself from time.

Do you know what I find interesting, as far as i'm aware the only time Braxton or the relativity etc ever go back in time to rectify something is because the time alteration has had something to do with somebody going back in time from their particular time period. In Voyager it always involved something from Braxtons time. For example Braxtons small ship, the future Braxton altering history where they obtain Sevens help.

It is my theory that the Temporal Agency (which includes Braxton and the Relativity etc) which deals with time travel alterations is only allowed to take action if the time travelling took place after the creation and signing of the Temporal Accord.

They never took action in FC, they've never took action against Sisko, they've never took action other times when Kirk time travelled. I believe the reason for that is because they have no jurisdiction to act against people time travelling before the time of the accords signing.

Mr. Laser Beam March 17 2009 02:06 AM

Re: Relativity
 
There is an answer to that question, why doesn't 29th century Starfleet stop Nero:

They still can.

In a very real sense, they have plenty of time.

Neutrino March 17 2009 02:11 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

Babaganoosh wrote: (Post 2720256)
There is an answer to that question, why doesn't 29th century Starfleet stop Nero:

They still can.

In a very real sense, they have plenty of time.

But what if Nero's time travel escapade alters the future to the point where there is no time agency, no temporal accord and no Relativity? How do we know for certain the Relativity is safe from time alterations? if it was indeed safe then every time time travel has taken place no matter how tiny a new time line will be created (the butterfly effect) and a new Relativity would be created. By now there must be 5000+ Relativity's existing.

The only logical conclusion I can come up with is that Nero's time travelling re-writes the future and to the new future Relativity Nero's time travelling is a must.

miraclefan March 17 2009 02:14 AM

Re: Relativity
 
I doubt the ''Time'' police would bother in the affairs of an ''Alternate Universe''.

Kelso March 17 2009 02:17 AM

Re: Relativity
 
The Relativity was from the distant future. Any temporal meddling by folks from the 25th century would be in their history.

Photoman15 March 17 2009 02:19 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Well, that's the thing. You can't have Relativity fixing things in the past AND a multiverse. It's one or the other, depending on what the story needs.

Neutrino March 17 2009 02:21 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

Kelso wrote: (Post 2720323)
The Relativity was from the distant future. Any temporal meddling by folks from the 25th century would be in their history.

Exactly, so in order to police Nero's time travelling we need a 24th century Temporal police force, but none exists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they don't exist until the signing of the Temporal accord by which time Nero's time jump is history.

Brent March 17 2009 02:27 AM

Re: Relativity
 
They can scan the timeline like sensors scan in space, so they should know of any meddling by other time travelers, like Nero

Then you have to think about Starfleet of the 31st century, Daniels time frame, or even greater, WHO gets to police the timeline if youv'e got a time agency say in the 50th or 100th century or something, which time agency in which time period gets to police the timeline and who does what when?

I have a headache

Neutrino March 17 2009 02:29 AM

Re: Relativity
 
Quote:

Brent wrote: (Post 2720385)
They can scan the timeline like sensors scan in space, so they should know of any meddling by other time travelers, like Nero

But to them it's already happened and is history. They can only police time travelling from their own time period. If their sensors indicate a change in the time line then clearly it's been done by someone from their own time period because otherwise it wouldn't show up on sensors as it's already happened long ago.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.