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-   -   Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal. (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=91965)

Mr. Scott May 10 2009 05:55 PM

Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.

I would think that Vulcan would be xenophobic to a great degree, other people from other worlds can visit, but cannot really assimilaite or understand the Vulcan culture and rather grow old of the place. Can it be said that Serek and his wife were the first interracial couple in all of Vulcan? I have read that the Vulcan children in Star Trek 11 call the child Spock's mother a "whore". Why would they do this, if they were devoid of emotion. Since love is an emotion which is not practiced, the whore reference was towards that no alien should marrya Vulcan and Spock was a b*s*ard.

Vulcans have been occasionally portrayed as somewhat rude people, using logic to make their points which without their knowledge annoys their hosts, especially human ones. Dr. McCoy/Spock was an example of this.

Sarek was a very strict father, but he always loved Spock and wanted what was best for him. But how can an unemotional person love anyone? Love is an emotion. I have also inferred from all the series that Vulcans do feel, but through culture and training have blotted most of their feelings out, but a Vulcan does have feelings.

Enterprise really screwed up the Vulcans, the actors in the Vulcan roles had emotions. I have imbibed too much Romulan Ale to do research, but the Vulcans were almost villians in that series and several episodes played that out. I liked the Vulcan who was the supervisor and mentor of T'Pol.

My favorite Vulcan was Tuvok from Voyager played by Tim Russ. Russ played the role beautifully.

JINXED May 10 2009 06:35 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 

borgboy May 10 2009 06:50 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Vulcans do have emotions. In the movie Serak tells Spock that Vulcan emotions are stronger than that of most other species. In the past their strong emotions led them to be violent, and Surak's philosophies taught them to repress their emotions and control them, but those emotions are still there.
Sarek fell in love with Amanda, and after her death fell in love with Perrin. So he is obviously attracted to human women. Most people do have a "type" after all. He probably saw in Perrin many of the same qualities Amanda had.
Sarek is a very handsome, intelligent and charismatic man, it doesn't seem strange to me at all that Amanda fell in love with him.
Spock is supposed to be the first successful Vulcan/human hybrid child, but I don't know that anything was ever said about Sarek and Amanda being the first Vulcan/human couple. We know from Enterprise that T'Pol and Trip were involved but they didn't marry.
The Vulcan children clearly had not developed strong control of their emotions yet.

Alidar Jarok May 10 2009 10:38 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Mr. Scott, please don't hotlink images (use image tags to directly post an image) unless you have permission. Use a special image hosting website like photobucket if you're unsure or just leave it as a link :)

SpocksBondmate May 10 2009 11:08 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

borgboy wrote: (Post 2931791)
Vulcans do have emotions. In the movie Serak tells Spock that Vulcan emotions are stronger than that of most other species. In the past their strong emotions led them to be violent, and Surak's philosophies taught them to repress their emotions and control them, but those emotions are still there.

Good points...although I do know that Spock eventually had to "embrace" his human side. That being said, couldn't Sarek have done the same? I think that if he had, maybe Spock and Sarek would have had a better relationship.

JustKate May 11 2009 07:41 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

Mr. Scott wrote: (Post 2931493)
I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.

In the first place, as others have pointed out, Vulcans do experience emotions. Their mission, if I can call it that, is to make sure those emotions don't cloud their judgment or cause them to do things that should not be done...or not do things that should be done. I don't see anything incompatable with that and loving your spouse and kids.

In the second place, there is no evidence that Vulcans can have sex only during pon farr - they are driven to mate then, but they can presumably have sex anytime they want to, just like us humans. There is canonical evidence, both overt and implied, that this is so.

Finally, it's obvious to many present-day human females exactly what Amanda and Sarek's second wife saw in Sarek. ;) Really. He's a very attractive man. So's Spock. Lots and lots and lots of female Trek fans preferred them to Kirk back in the day - and I was (and am) one of them. I think the network was kind of surprised by Sarek's and Spock's sexual appeal, actually.

KimMH May 11 2009 08:20 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

JustKate wrote: (Post 2938436)
Quote:

Mr. Scott wrote: (Post 2931493)
I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

This crazy family................................

Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.

In the first place, as others have pointed out, Vulcans do experience emotions. Their mission, if I can call it that, is to make sure those emotions don't cloud their judgment or cause them to do things that should not be done...or not do things that should be done. I don't see anything incompatable with that and loving your spouse and kids.

In the second place, there is no evidence that Vulcans can have sex only during pon farr - they are driven to mate then, but they can presumably have sex anytime they want to, just like us humans. There is canonical evidence, both overt and implied, that this is so.

Finally, it's obvious to many present-day human females exactly what Amanda and Sarek's second wife saw in Sarek. ;) Really. He's a very attractive man. So's Spock. Lots and lots and lots of female Trek fans preferred them to Kirk back in the day - and I was (and am) one of them. I think the network was kind of surprised by Sarek's and Spock's sexual appeal, actually.


^^^ of course they were surprised. they were probably mostly men! (can't live with 'em can't just bury them in the backyard . . . )

JustKate May 11 2009 09:13 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

oldstredshrtevr wrote: (Post 2938701)
^^^ of course they were surprised. they were probably mostly men! (can't live with 'em can't just bury them in the backyard . . . )

:lol:

Of course they were mostly men - I was going to point that out but decided to pretend to be all politically correct. Until now. ;) But that is their only excuse, as far as I can tell.

So, Mr. Scott - there you have it. To you, a human female being attracted to Sarek might seem inexplicable, but lots of human females understand it perfectly. Hmmm, now that I think about it, a few weeks back there was a Mark Lenard/Sarek thread...Here it is: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...ghlight=lenard

Lots of Vulcan/Sarek love there!

Sovereign_One May 13 2009 01:27 AM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Thanks for the link! :drool:

S'kai May 13 2009 05:03 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
This is something we do not speak of to outsiders.

barnaclelapse May 13 2009 07:23 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
What was the great line from III?

"My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned."

That always kind of summed up Vulcans for me. It spoke volumes of their emotions and faith.

borgboy May 14 2009 12:18 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
As for Sarek not embracing emotions, I imagine that Sarek faced a lot of prejudice and difficulties after marrying Amanda, perhaps that caused him to overcomensate and be "more" Vulcan and repressed.
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.

erebus May 14 2009 01:15 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

borgboy wrote: (Post 2955098)
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.

I agree with this, my parents did the same with me and my brothers (as first generation children of indian immigrants in England, our overprotective parents wanted us not to assimulate English ways or develop strong relationships with English people, because they felt that ultimately we wouldnt' be accepted because of our race and only get hurt, probably because being relatively uneducated they'd suffered a lot of racial abuse in their own experience).

barnaclelapse May 14 2009 01:34 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

borgboy wrote: (Post 2955098)
As for Sarek not embracing emotions, I imagine that Sarek faced a lot of prejudice and difficulties after marrying Amanda, perhaps that caused him to overcomensate and be "more" Vulcan and repressed.
I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.

That's how it seemed to me, especially when their relationship started getting into the movies.

Sovereign_One May 14 2009 05:46 PM

Re: Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.
 
Quote:

Mr. Scott wrote: (Post 2931493)
Sarek was a very strict father, but he always loved Spock and wanted what was best for him. But how can an unemotional person love anyone?

This is how. :)


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