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Praetor April 20 2009 05:26 AM

Sela...
 
As a kid, I was never really bothered by the idea of Sela. It seemed like a clever follow-up to 'Yesterday's Enterprise.' However, as I got older, it started to feel more and more stereotypical that Sela was essentially an 'evil twin' Yar. It seems lots of folks 'round here feel similarly.

I've often wondered if Sela would have worked better if she actually was the alternate Yar herself - who had either been broken by the Romulans or willingly defected to their side.

What are your opinions on Sela? Like her, hate her, what and why?

sbk1234 April 20 2009 06:27 AM

Re: Sela...
 
Never liked the idea. I figured that if Denise Crosby really wanted to come back, they could have just burried her in makeup and make her a Romulan without the contrived backstory.

WillsBabe April 20 2009 07:09 AM

Re: Sela...
 
Well... I voted "disliked her". This was my gut reaction based on years and years of - er - disliking her. I think I disliked her because I thought that Denise Crosby wanted back in on TNG when she had jumped ship in season one, and that really irrirated me. Also, I disliked her because I don't think that Crosby did a good job of acting her, and because I was bored to tears by the whole Klingon, Romulan and Klingon-Romulan storylines. Now I consider it, though, I think I would have voted "nice idea, bad execution" because I do think she was a decent enough idea, and quite well thought out, but there is still something about the actress, or the character, or the execution that just leaves me cold.

DGCatAniSiri April 20 2009 08:05 AM

Re: Sela...
 
I liked Sela, but I'm not sure exactly why. I just... do. Yeah, she certainly seems young for a Romulan Commander, but, first of all, there's the fact that her father IS a high-ranking member, and I've always considered the Romulans to indulge in nepotism. Second, I've recently come to embrace the idea that gaining the rank of Commander is easy, but in the world of the Romulan political military, KEEPING said rank is difficult and the fact that she survived two failed plots to make it to the third one in Unification implied that she has quite a bit of skill at her job.

Too Much Fun April 20 2009 08:06 AM

Re: Sela...
 
I think the first time I saw her I liked the character and the idea behind it, because it just seemed like a neat shocking twist. Now that I'm older I realize that it was just a cheap, inept attempt to bring Denise Crosby back. "Yesterday's Enterprise" was a perfect send-off for the Tasha Yar character. There was no reason to bring her back or give her additional backstory/relatives after that (until "All Good Things..."). They really told us more than we needed to know. Why tell us that Tasha was raped and killed by Romulans after being betrayed by her own daughter?

It would have been nicer to just think of the possibilities of her winding up with the man she fell for in "Yesterday's Enterprise". It was also lame how easily she was outsmarted and subdued. The only thing I still like about this character is how she snaps at Spock, telling him how much she hates Vulcans and logic when he talks about something not being logical. That part has always made me laugh. Everything else involving her wasn't so good. Other than that one exchange, all the best parts of "Unification" are the ones not involving Sela - Spock interacting with Data, Picard interacting with Sarek, and the nice moment with Picard and Spock at the end. I don't hate the character, though, I just think it was very unnecessary, so I voted "in between".

Trek Survivor April 20 2009 01:04 PM

Re: Sela...
 
I voted good idea, bad execution. I loved the idea, but would have preferred Sela being a central point to one episode (or a 2-parter), maybe dying (either heroically after learning of her humanity or evilly embracing her Romulan heritage) at the end. I certainly thought tacking her on to two two-part episodes that had far bigger things going on (Klingon civil war and Spock) was never going to help.

The fact that Denise Crosby just wasn't that good an actress (nice person though) didn't help matters.

Anwar April 20 2009 04:49 PM

Re: Sela...
 
It was rather silly, I mean I thought YE made it clear that they'd all die a few minutes after they returned to the past. With the bad state the ship was in, how'd the Romulans have gotten captives in the first place? And wouldn't the Klingons have noticed and told the Feds? They should've just used Tomalok in Redemption.

Tomalak April 20 2009 05:39 PM

Re: Sela...
 
Weak character, not especially great actress, convoluted backstory... Teamed up with the Duras sisters, only slightly more threatening than the Pakleds.

Praetor April 20 2009 06:24 PM

Re: Sela...
 
Quote:

WillsBabe wrote: (Post 2849545)
I think I disliked her because I thought that Denise Crosby wanted back in on TNG when she had jumped ship in season one, and that really irrirated me.

You know, I think that's a lot of it for me.

Quote:

DGCatAniSiri wrote: (Post 2849617)
Second, I've recently come to embrace the idea that gaining the rank of Commander is easy, but in the world of the Romulan political military, KEEPING said rank is difficult and the fact that she survived two failed plots to make it to the third one in Unification implied that she has quite a bit of skill at her job.

Good point.

Quote:

Too Much Fun wrote: (Post 2849618)
The only thing I still like about this character is how she snaps at Spock, telling him how much she hates Vulcans and logic when he talks about something not being logical. That part has always made me laugh.

After reading that, I could hear her saying that, and I haven't seen that ep for years. That was a very good moment.

Quote:

Anwar wrote: (Post 2850424)
They should've just used Tomalok in Redemption.

Now there's a good idea... :D

Regarding Denise not being that good of an actress - I've been watching a bit of season one lately, and I have to say she's not nearly as bad as I remember, or as she's often cited to be.

*ducks*

Anwar April 20 2009 06:56 PM

Re: Sela...
 
She's okay, it's just that compared to guys like Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis she's not so good.

Praetor April 20 2009 08:41 PM

Re: Sela...
 
The thing about Denise Crosby, to me, is that her acting style seems very honest - that is, she is who she seems to be, and there doesn't seem to be a lot going on beyond what you see and hear. She lets herself be an open book - and by extension, so were Yar and Sela.

In that regard, she made a terrible Romulan. :rommie:

JustKate April 20 2009 08:55 PM

Re: Sela...
 
I thought Denise Crosby was pretty mediocre as an actor (I can remember some downright awful scenes, such as in "Code of Honor" - a bad performance in a horrible episode)...but then, we didn't really have much of an opportunity to judge her, did we? She wasn't in that many episodes, and she was featured in even fewer.

I thought she did OK as Sela, but...OK, here's the thing. I just hate that they made her look so human human human. Hate it. It was clearly done for one reason only, and that was for the shock value as all of us, and the Enterprise crew, saw Yar apparently back from the dead. To do something so...silly, just for 10 seconds' worth of audience shock just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I wish they could have done it more subtly - at least make her look somewhat Romulan, even if her relationship to Yar was pretty obvious, too. I realize this would be difficult, but that's why makeup artists get the big or at least fairly big bucks, right?

zephramc April 20 2009 09:55 PM

Re: Sela...
 
In between. It was nice seeing Denise Crosby again as she was one of the originals. Other than that, Sela wasn't very interesting nor did she seem like an adversary to Picard or his crew in the way Tomalak did. I suppose that's the difference between Andreas Katsulas' (RIP) acting chops and Crosby's.

blueshirt April 20 2009 10:34 PM

Re: Sela...
 
I was never a Sela fan. I thought a 20-something commander among the long-lived Romulans was silly. It's like making a new college graduate an IBM vice president or editor in chief of The New York Times. It just wouldn't happen.

Also, I thought Sela took valuable minutes away from the Worf and Data plotlines in "Redemption II." Commander Tomalak or some other Romulan could have served equally well there or in "Unification."

Now, had they done a separate episode devoted to the Enterprise encountering this Romulan officer Sela and Picard having to contemplate the effects of his actions in an alternative timeline (and also wondering whether it's all just some Romulan ploy), that might have been an interesting way to bring Denise Crosby back.

Anwar April 20 2009 10:35 PM

Re: Sela...
 
Quote:

JustKate wrote: (Post 2851345)
I thought Denise Crosby was pretty mediocre as an actor (I can remember some downright awful scenes, such as in "Code of Honor" - a bad performance in a horrible episode)...but then, we didn't really have much of an opportunity to judge her, did we? She wasn't in that many episodes, and she was featured in even fewer.

I thought she did OK as Sela, but...OK, here's the thing. I just hate that they made her look so human human human. Hate it. It was clearly done for one reason only, and that was for the shock value as all of us, and the Enterprise crew, saw Yar apparently back from the dead. To do something so...silly, just for 10 seconds' worth of audience shock just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I wish they could have done it more subtly - at least make her look somewhat Romulan, even if her relationship to Yar was pretty obvious, too. I realize this would be difficult, but that's why makeup artists get the big or at least fairly big bucks, right?

Well, seeing how the only difference between Romulans and humans are the ears, the haircut and the forehead ridges (most of them) they did an okay job with Sela seeing how being half-human would have eliminated the ridges while leaving her with the ears and the blonde take on the haircut.


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