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-   -   if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married... (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=84531)

Guy Gardener March 4 2009 11:56 PM

if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
He marries Seven apparently in the lost Endgame Timeline.

Does she take his voidy absence of a last name and now becomes just Seven or Just Anika? Or since nature abhors a vacuum, does he take her family name or names, making his new John Hancock: Chakotay Hansen or Chakotay Tertiary Adjutant to Unimatrix 001?

iguana_tonante March 4 2009 11:59 PM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677154)
He marries Seven apparently in the lost Endgame Timeline.

Does she take his voidy absence of a last name and now becomes just Seven or Just Anika? Or since nature abhors a vacuum, does he take her family name or names, making his new John Hancock: Chakotay Hansen or Chakotay Tertiary Adjutant to Unimatrix 001?

Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.

Hoshi_Mayweather March 5 2009 12:08 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 2677171)
Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677154)
He marries Seven apparently in the lost Endgame Timeline.

Does she take his voidy absence of a last name and now becomes just Seven or Just Anika? Or since nature abhors a vacuum, does he take her family name or names, making his new John Hancock: Chakotay Hansen or Chakotay Tertiary Adjutant to Unimatrix 001?

Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.

This was something the boyfriend and I discussed awhile back...(and I can go with the guy taking the name of the woman for a change, but I guess that is up to the couple).

As for Chakotay taking Seven's 'human' last name...Hmm, I don't think that'll please the C/J'ers...no matter the timeline. :lol:

Guy Gardener March 5 2009 12:08 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.
I am not a yank, not that there's anything wrong with that. Hells Bells, its debatable if I even live in the west. :)

I've heard of this "compositing" that couples do when entering marriage that they both take on a hybrid name to acknowledge that neither of them is too superior in an obvious way.... But any way you try to conglomerate Hansen and " " you're going to end up still with Hansen... And, in the case of hyphenating, how do you pronounce Hansen-" " ? Or " "-Hansen?

I wonder if Miral and B'Elanna now have to do some scary things before "The House of Paris" would be recognized by the Klingon High Council?

Brit March 5 2009 12:21 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Of course why does any name have to be taken, Chakotay had one name. His wife depending on who would have one name or two or three. His children would have as many names as they cared to give them. Maybe the wife has a surname and the children take his custom and don't have surnames either.

I am also reasonably sure in the future people will have some official designation like a social security number so they really won't need last names.

Brit

iguana_tonante March 5 2009 12:24 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677202)
I've heard of this "compositing" that couples do when entering marriage that they both take on a hybrid name to acknowledge that neither of them is too superior in an obvious way.... But any way you try to conglomerate Hansen and " " you're going to end up still with Hansen... And, in the case of hyphenating, how do you pronounce Hansen-" " ? Or " "-Hansen?

No, actually I was talking about each partner keeping their own last name (or lack thereof). So Chakotay will be Chakotay and Seven (Hannika Hansen) will be Seven (Hannika Hansen). There is no need for a common, or composite, last name to know that they are a married couple.

Quote:

I wonder if Miral and B'Elanna now have to do some scary things before "The House of Paris" would be recognized by the Klingon High Council?
The naming of the klingon houses is somehow confusing. Lursa and B'Etor were from the House of Duras (their brother), but Worf is from the House of Mogh (his dead father). So I really don't know how they will call it. Maybe the name of B'Elanna grandfather, since he would be the fist male klingon in their family line.

Guy Gardener March 5 2009 12:35 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
There was this bloke called Duras on Enterprise. The name is old, so is the family and the need to lord over it using a symbol of authority, even if that is just a heriditically passed "name".

I think the leader of the house assumes the name (Romans were big on this as well as adopting adults to create lineage.) of the house, or mothers expecting their children to assume leadership, however unlikely give their kids the name of the leader of the house as the tiniest nudge towards being ambitious, but then it would be kind of pathetic have 1/2 the house having the same "name"? You'd think that the name would be forbidden for any one to use but the ruler of the house?

Popes and Kings take on new names when they get to power.

Remember in King Ralph?

"Maybe you should considering a new name?"

"Why? ralph is a perfectly fine name."

spoonunseptium March 5 2009 12:45 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
There's no need for either of them to take each other's names.

Guy Gardener March 5 2009 01:06 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Of course there's no need, and it's physically impossible for her to anyway.

I got Fiddler on the roof hammering through my memories right now.

"Tradition! tradition!"

The Grim Ghost March 5 2009 07:08 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 2677171)
Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677154)
He marries Seven apparently in the lost Endgame Timeline.

Does she take his voidy absence of a last name and now becomes just Seven or Just Anika? Or since nature abhors a vacuum, does he take her family name or names, making his new John Hancock: Chakotay Hansen or Chakotay Tertiary Adjutant to Unimatrix 001?

Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.

Uh, there are MANY countries where this is customary.

Personally I don't care either way, but you're just flat out wrong here.

Praetor March 5 2009 07:44 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
It will be 'Janeway' of course.

Oops, wrong thread. :p

Guy Gardener March 5 2009 08:00 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Right thread, i just changed the names of some people to protect the dead sexy.

Miss Chicken March 5 2009 10:16 AM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Icelanders manage OK without surnames. They use patronymic (or sometimes matronymic) instead.

If Chakotay used this method and called his son Clyde, his son would be known as Clyde Chakotayson. If his daighter was Kathryn, she would be known as Kathryn Chakotaydaughter. Or the children might use their mother's first name as a matronymic.

Women are known all their lives by the name their were given at birth and never take the husbands' names.

Of course, in all likelihood, Chakotay would give his some an Indian name.

Neelix and Tuvok don't have last names.

Tachyon March 5 2009 02:41 PM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Or perhaps Chakotay's "full name" is Chakotay Son Of Kolpak. In this case his son's name would be, for instance, Clyde Son Of Chakotay.

Seven was not too fond of her given name, so perhaps her name remained as Seven Of Nine when she would have married Chakotay.

iguana_tonante March 5 2009 04:40 PM

Re: if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
 
Quote:

destro wrote: (Post 2678424)
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 2677171)
Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.

Uh, there are MANY countries where this is customary.

Personally I don't care either way, but you're just flat out wrong here.

In the world, you are right. But in the western hemisphere, only Anglophone nations still do that, and in the UK it's a declining trend (if I remember correctly). Honestly, I don't know about Australia and New Zealand.


Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677286)
There was this bloke called Duras on Enterprise. The name is old, so is the family and the need to lord over it using a symbol of authority, even if that is just a heriditically passed "name".

I think the leader of the house assumes the name (Romans were big on this as well as adopting adults to create lineage.) of the house, or mothers expecting their children to assume leadership, however unlikely give their kids the name of the leader of the house as the tiniest nudge towards being ambitious, but then it would be kind of pathetic have 1/2 the house having the same "name"? You'd think that the name would be forbidden for any one to use but the ruler of the house?

As I said, it is confusing. Maybe Duras is the name of the founder of the House one thousand years ago, and the ones we saw are just people that bear his name. Same with Mogh. On the other hand, when Quark assumed the head of Grilka's House in DS9, it assumed the name of House of Quark, so we have evidence that the name of the House is that of the ruling male. Or maybe, it could just be that different Houses have different rules, as surname rules are different in human cultures.

Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 2677374)
I got Fiddler on the roof hammering through my memories right now.

"Tradition! tradition!"

Yeah, but tradition of who? Neither Seven nor Chakotay apparently belong to culture where it's customary for the wife to assume the surname of the husband, or vice versa. You are applying a tradition to people that do not share it.

Quote:

Miss Chicken wrote: (Post 2678649)
Neelix and Tuvok don't have last names.

Vulcan family names are also confusing. Apparently the use the patronymic (Spock, son of Sarek), and in very formal occasion the double patronymic (Sarek, child of Skon, child of Solkar). Many novels assume that they have clan or family names. It could be the "almost unpronunciable for a human" name that Spock never told to Leila Kalomi, or the one that Spock's mother had difficulties to learn in Journey to Babel.

About Talaxian names, I do not want to know. :p


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