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TrekToday December 13 2008 05:43 AM

Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
In spite of seeming differences from traditional <i>Star Trek</i>, <i>Star Trek XI</i> remains within canon with modern-day science able to explain away the time-travel.<p>As reported by <A class="link" HREF="http://trekmovie.com">TrekMovie.com</A>, <i>Star Trek XI</i> co-writer <font color=yellow>Roberto Orci</font> explained how quantum mechanics allows for different timelines. "If you look at quantum mechanics and you learn about the fact that our most successful theory of science is quantum mechanics, and the fact that it deals with probabilities of events happening. And that the most probable events tend to happen more often and that one of the subsets of that theory is the 'many universe' theory. Data said this [in 'Parallels'], he summed up quantum mechanics as the theory that "all possibilities that can happen do happen" in a parallel universe. According to theory, there are going to be a much larger number of universes in which events are very closely related, because those are the most probable configurations of things. Inherent in quantum mechanics there is sort of reverse entropy, which is what you were trying to say, in which the universe does tend to want to order itself in a certain way. This is not something we are making up; this is something we researched, in terms of the physical theory. So yes, there is an element of the universe trying to hold itself together." <p>The destruction of the USS Kelvin creates an alternate timeline, but does not erase the original timeline. "The original timeline remains after Nero leaves it," explained Orci. "According to the most successful, most tested scientific theory ever, quantum mechanics, it continues." The "many-universes interpretation" of quantum mechanics says that there is a very large, perhaps infinite, number of universes and that everything that could possibly happen in our universe, but doesn't, does happen in some other universe(s).<p>This type of time-travel is different than is usually presented in movies. "Quantum mechanics avoids the grandfather paradox that 'Back to the Future' relies on, which is: you can go back in 'Back to the Future' and screw with your own birth and potentially invalidate your own birth," said Orci. "In quantum mechanics that is not the case. In quantum mechanics, if you go back and kill your own father, then you just live on as the guy who came in from another universe who lives in a universe where you killed some guy, but you donít erase your existence doing that."<p>So it would appear by the above that the timeline from the original series through <i>Star Trek: Nemesis</i> will continue to exist. However, Nero's time-travel will set up an alternative timeline. Any changes will be chalked up to the timeline being the alternative timeline. As Janeway said in <i>Future's End</i>, "I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these Godforsaken paradoxes. The past is the future, the future is the past, it all gives me a headache."<p>To read more, head to the article located <A class="link" HREF="http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/">here</A>.<center></center>

ArthurKing December 13 2008 06:59 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Translation:

By developing a cursory understanding of modern physics, we will claim that we can do whatever we want with the lineage of a 40-year franchise and chalk up any and all discrepancies to our being in an 'alternate but non-exclusive timeline!' Yes! It gets better by the day!

The problem here is that everyone involved with this project is trying to play both sides, and they're looking ridiculous for it. One week, they talk about respecting tradition, the next, they give us a homoerotic cover shot of Kirk & Spock and an image of the bridge meets Speed Racer.

They need to settle on what this movie is going to be (or, more accurately, what it is) and just be honest with everyone. I'm more bothered by these tightrope acts that they keep on resorting to. If they want to reimagine, then reimagine. But this is idiotic: they end up threatening established 'canon' while not convincing anyone that they're going to be in line with it anyway.

trekkerguy December 13 2008 07:16 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Quote:

ArthurKing wrote: (Post 2399613)
Translation:

By developing a cursory understanding of modern physics, we will claim that we can do whatever we want with the lineage of a 40-year franchise and chalk up any and all discrepancies to our being in an 'alternate but non-exclusive timeline!' Yes! It gets better by the day!

Yup, it's perfect. :drool:


Than CAN do whatever they want, and HAVE, and it looks awesome.
There is no tight rope. They said all along they weren't violating canon.
And so they found a perfectly viable in-universe way to do what needed
to be done with the franchise and not have a bunch of dribbling nerds
all over them for raping their childhoods.

JonathonWally December 13 2008 07:19 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Eh, whatever. Just tell a good story that doesn't totally go against everything and I'll be happy.

Bacl December 13 2008 07:45 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Okay...so if Nero goes to an alternate timeline to try and kill Kirk or whatever...then why does spock follow him??? If nothing he does will change history, at least not Spock's timeline's history, then why not let the lunatic vanish forever and be done with it all?

And before you say that Spock is still trying to protect people, his friends, just alternate versions of them that will be harmed by Nero...there are infinite alternate timelines and in many Kirk and Co. are likely getting killed by the second.

This all seems ridiculous and unneeded. Timelines. For god's sake.

trekkerguy December 13 2008 07:52 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Quote:

Bacl wrote: (Post 2399706)
Okay...so if Nero goes to an alternate timeline to try and kill Kirk or whatever...then why does spock follow him??? If nothing he does will change history, at least not Spock's timeline's history, then why not let the lunatic vanish forever and be done with it all?

It's being done like this simply to preserve everyones DVDs ;)

Hyades December 13 2008 07:57 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
What a complete load of crap. Couldn't they be more creative than to just adapt some physics to try to explain why they had to invalidate everything that came before? Very weak and disappointing. This flick sounds worse by the day.

I am actually working on a masters in physics, but this is not really making much sense to me. I get the whole multiverse theory. What I don't get is how these knuckle heads think they preserve canon by creating an alternate time line?

I think I'd rather see Star Trek rest in peace rather see all this crockery and silliness happen. Shame on you people.

Hyades December 13 2008 08:06 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Seriously, how hard could it be to write a script that actually makes sense? I have nearly lost all respect for the people responsible for this weak minded movie. In fact I don't know why I ever had any to begin with. I thought Cloverfield was awesome, but when you think about it, it was just a simple straight forward Godzilla monster movie. Almost no thinking went into it whatsoever.

You people should actually try next time.

Captain59 December 13 2008 08:51 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
What a cop out. So they can do whatever they want and hide behind this farse that it's simply an alternate universe? There are a lot of Trek fans that hate the alternate universe concept..throw that in to explain doings via time travel, and it's going to shut people out.

So with this explaination that opens the doors for anything to happen, they're still saying they can't find a way to have Shatner's Kirk in this movie? By their own self-explained scapegoat, Kirk IS alive in many universes and timelines. Why not make this one of them.

Ridiculous. I thought these guys were really working hard to walk the thin line to make this work, and now they're hiding behind this load of crap?

So are all these universes and timelines canon? :brickwall:

trekkerguy December 13 2008 08:54 AM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
I knew this thread would end up like this...:rolleyes:

And could the new people please stop double or triple posting? It's been happening all over the board.

If you have something to add to your post just hit the "EDIT" button on it. ;)

cubbie December 13 2008 01:58 PM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
^^ some people are learning their way around a message board and don't realize they can even edit.

trekkerguy December 13 2008 02:22 PM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Quote:

cubbie wrote: (Post 2400090)
^^ some people are learning their way around a message board and don't realize they can even edit.

And so I mentioned the "EDIT" button on the post :)

Jefferies December 13 2008 04:31 PM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Orci's comments sound rather feeble minded to me. If this is their rationale for the movie, I guess we can expect loads of crappy technobabble. I thought this was meant to be a story about the characters and the humanist spirit of Star Trek? All we ever get to hear is this shoddy time travel crap and alternate universe drivel. How on earth does that make this movie cool? :confused:

Saul December 13 2008 05:03 PM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
Quote:

Bacl wrote: (Post 2399706)
Okay...so if Nero goes to an alternate timeline to try and kill Kirk or whatever...then why does spock follow him??? If nothing he does will change history, at least not Spock's timeline's history, then why not let the lunatic vanish forever and be done with it all?

Spock might not be sure that it does create a new timeline. He might think that it could quite possibly effect his own. Which makes sense since we see from "First Contact" that the moment the Borg went back, the current timeline change. There was no spin off alternate timeline.

Broccoli December 13 2008 05:36 PM

Re: Orci On Canon And Timelines
 
I wonder if they'll even touch upon the alternate timeline stuff in the actual movie or if it'll just be inferred.

However, one thing remains consistent in both timelines: Enterprise. :hugegrin:


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