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-   -   Aventine the new flagship? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=75769)

Herbert December 3 2008 10:52 PM

Aventine the new flagship?
 
Is the U.S.S. Aventine with its leaps in technology considered to be the new flagship of the Federation? In future books, will other ships in the Starfleet, such as the Enterprise E, be uprated with the experimental technologies of the Vesta-class?

Mr. Laser Beam December 3 2008 10:54 PM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
I hope they stop saying that. The term 'flagship of the Federation' makes no sense, anyway, since governments don't have flagships - *admirals* do. An admiral plants his or her personal flag aboard a ship and uses it as their own, hence the term FLAGship.

For instance, the NCC-1701 could be considered a flagship for most of ST II and III, since Admiral Kirk was in command.

Herbert December 3 2008 11:12 PM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Geordi's use of the phrase "The flagship of the Federation" was correct when referring to the NCC-1701-E in Star Trek: First Contact because the Sovereign-class Enterprise was the most advanced at the time.

Flagship can also be used to refer to a ship when it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, a designation given on account of it being the largest, fastest, newest, most advanced, most heavily armed or, for publicity purposes, the most well known.

Its use is not exclusive to refer to the ship used by the commanding officer of a fleet of ships.

Rowan Sjet December 3 2008 11:25 PM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
I think your last qualifier for "Flagship" applies here Herbert. There are always going to be ships that are better in some ways than other ships (like the Aventine or, for instance, the Prometheus) but the Enterprise is a household name among the Federation and it's neighbours.

For that reason, I'm sure the Enterprise-E doesn't have to worry about losing it's flagship status any time soon.

Christopher December 3 2008 11:26 PM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

Herbert wrote: (Post 2365066)
Geordi's use of the phrase "The flagship of the Federation" was correct when referring to the NCC-1701-E in Star Trek: First Contact because the Sovereign-class Enterprise was the most advanced at the time.

Flagship can also be used to refer to a ship when it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, a designation given on account of it being the largest, fastest, newest, most advanced, most heavily armed or, for publicity purposes, the most well known.

Okay, you're quoting the bolded portion directly from Wikipedia's "Flagship" entry (or rather, you're plagiarizing it -- in future, don't quote something directly without citing your source, please). But that's not always the most reliable source, and I think it's conflating multiple different uses. In strictly military terms, I think Babaganoosh is right -- a flagship is the ship on which the commander of a fleet (whether a group of ships operating jointly or simply the navy at large) is based. Its use to mean the grandest or most advanced ship in a line is more a civilian usage, as in a cruise fleet, say.

Of course, Starfleet has never been strictly military, and usage can evolve over time. Still, the "flagship" designation has never been clearly defined in Trek, and I suspect it's an informal usage.

Regardless of how you define it, I don't think the Aventine would be the "flagship." It's more of an experimental ship, a test bed for new technologies. The "flagship" of the fleet might get the best, most advanced new toys, but not until after the Aventine has taken them for a test drive and made sure they won't blow up.

Herbert December 3 2008 11:49 PM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Sorry about that. In future I will quote my sources.

True, the Aventine is a test bed of new technologies at the moment. But a working quantum slipstream drive in a Federation starship is a major leap in technology and capability. Like fighters moving from propeller driven propulsion to jet engines or breaking and surpasing the sound barrier. Such a leap that previous classes have been rendered obsolete if they cannot be fitted to the new drive system.

Stevil2001 December 4 2008 12:05 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
If you don't properly cite your sources, you'll fail out of the forum! Watch out for the professor, he's sneaky.

Herbert December 4 2008 12:14 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

Steve Mollmann wrote: (Post 2365328)
If you don't properly cite your sources, you'll fail out of the forum! Watch out for the professor, he's sneaky.

I should have known better and been more precise and quoted my sources.

Silversmok3 December 4 2008 12:46 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
You make a good case for the Aventine being the flagship based on advanced tech.

That said,Enterprise is Starfleet's flagship not for technical reasons,not even because an admiral commanded one,but because a ship called Enterprise has been around before the Federation even existed.In homage to that history the Enterprise will always be the Federation flagship.

Its also impractical to have the flagship be the most advanced ship in the context of Trek,as every few years it would change to a different NX-registry ship.

Assuming that said NX-ship doesn't blow up or crash first lol!

Stevil2001 December 4 2008 01:03 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

Silversmok3 wrote: (Post 2365553)
That said,Enterprise is Starfleet's flagship not for technical reasons,not even because an admiral commanded one,but because a ship called Enterprise has been around before the Federation even existed.In homage to that history the Enterprise will always be the Federation flagship.

I suspect there's more to it than that, otherwise Kumari or T'Plana-Hath would be the flagship.

JoeZhang December 4 2008 01:06 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
They have a score chart - once a ship has saved the earth more times than Enterprise, it gets to be the flagship.

The D scored triple points because it saved the universe.

Herbert December 4 2008 01:36 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
I didn't intend this thread to turn into a debate concerning the proper use of the term flagship. I meant it more as a thread to ask the question if the technologies that the Vesta-class posessed would make the rest of the fleet obsolete and/or the rest of the fleet would soon be in drydocks and fitted with the new technologies when they were deemed to be stable and operational.

Will we see the Enterprise or Titan fitted with the new quantum slipstream drive or the other technologies of the Vesta-class in the literary series?

Sci December 4 2008 01:45 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

Steve Mollmann wrote: (Post 2365659)
Quote:

Silversmok3 wrote: (Post 2365553)
That said,Enterprise is Starfleet's flagship not for technical reasons,not even because an admiral commanded one,but because a ship called Enterprise has been around before the Federation even existed.In homage to that history the Enterprise will always be the Federation flagship.

I suspect there's more to it than that, otherwise Kumari or T'Plana-Hath would be the flagship.

I would assume that it's in tribute to the fact that without the United Earth Ship Enterprise NX-01, neither the Coalition of Planets nor the United Federation of Planets would have been established--the Confederacy of Vulcan and the Andorian Empire would still be at each other's throats, United Earth would still be under Vulcan's heel, and who knows what Tellar would be up to?

Hartzilla2007 December 4 2008 01:57 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

JoeZhang wrote: (Post 2365681)
They have a score chart - once a ship has saved the earth more times than Enterprise, it gets to be the flagship.

The D scored triple points because it saved the universe.

Not to mention:


Allyn Gibson December 4 2008 02:17 AM

Re: Aventine the new flagship?
 
Quote:

JoeZhang wrote: (Post 2365681)
The D scored triple points because it saved the universe.

"After saving every planet in the known universe a minimum of seventeen times, I have decided to retire." :)


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