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-   -   If not MAN TRAP..then what (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=69067)

RobertScorpio October 2 2008 09:26 PM

If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
MAN TRAP was the first aired episode, and yet from what I have read, six were in the can. Many point at that premier episode as being one of the reasons TOS had a bumpy start. You know what they say about first impressions...

Of the episodes that were in the can, which one would you have gone with first?

Rob
Scorpio

JoeD80 October 2 2008 09:31 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Robert Justman said in his Star Trek book that they were really only considering "The Naked Time" or "The Man Trap" for the premeire, and the reason they chose "The Man Trap" was to illustrate the "Strange New Worlds" concept. Think if they had gone with "Mudd's Women" as the first one! If I was there, I would have picked "The Enemy Within."

cooleddie74 October 2 2008 10:01 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
"WNMHGB".

Just to set up the premise and characters with a bunch of people who weren't going to return to the show and get the whole mystery of the costume and set changes out of the way a lot sooner.

RobertScorpio October 2 2008 10:04 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

cooleddie74 wrote: (Post 2134619)
"WNMHGB".

Just to set up the premise and characters with a bunch of people who weren't going to return to the show and get the whole mystery of the costume and set changes out of the way a lot sooner.

Not a bad idea, but it might have been confusing if in the coming attactions they saw radically different settings and uniforms...I think they should have done with WNMHGB what they did with the CAGE. But instead of season one, they should have showed it in the second season with some kind of framing around it...

Rob

cooleddie74 October 2 2008 10:17 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

RobertScorpio wrote: (Post 2134633)
Quote:

cooleddie74 wrote: (Post 2134619)
"WNMHGB".

Just to set up the premise and characters with a bunch of people who weren't going to return to the show and get the whole mystery of the costume and set changes out of the way a lot sooner.

Not a bad idea, but it might have been confusing if in the coming attactions they saw radically different settings and uniforms...I think they should have done with WNMHGB what they did with the CAGE. But instead of season one, they should have showed it in the second season with some kind of framing around it...

Rob

Yeah, perhaps the late 60s equivalent of a "flashback episode" a'la "The Menagerie" with stock footage from a pilot episode used to explain background and context.

Elder Knight October 3 2008 12:37 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
As "The Naked Time" was supposed to depict the crew acting out of character, had it been the debut, you wouldn'y know them in character.

(Of course, TNG used their "remake" of this story very early, as I recall.)

RandyS October 3 2008 01:41 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

Elder Knight wrote: (Post 2135202)
As "The Naked Time" was supposed to depict the crew acting out of character, had it been the debut, you wouldn'y know them in character.

(Of course, TNG used their "remake" of this story very early, as I recall.)

Yep. It was episode two.

As to the question, What about "The Enemy Within"? We got to know Kirk (both sides of him) pretty well in that one.

Brutal Strudel October 3 2008 01:45 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

JoeD80 wrote: (Post 2134511)
Robert Justman said in his Star Trek book that they were really only considering "The Naked Time" or "The Man Trap" for the premeire, and the reason they chose "The Man Trap" was to illustrate the "Strange New Worlds" concept. Think if they had gone with "Mudd's Women" as the first one! If I was there, I would have picked "The Enemy Within."

Right out of the box is too early to split your lead, I'd say. We need a few weeks to get to know him before we can do that to him.

I think "The Man Trap"--a good, solid horror story with philosophical underpinnings and a monster that would look right at home on The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone was agood choice. It's been unjustly maligned (by Nimoy, among others) in my opinion.

Gagarin October 3 2008 04:33 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
I think the Corbomite Fiasco (see special effects problems) could have been a great start. They're... on a star trek...and find aliens... etc.

Other than that, I don't get why they didn't just show the new pilot for the first episode. =-/

RobertScorpio October 3 2008 06:09 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

Brutal Strudel wrote: (Post 2135485)
Quote:

JoeD80 wrote: (Post 2134511)
Robert Justman said in his Star Trek book that they were really only considering "The Naked Time" or "The Man Trap" for the premeire, and the reason they chose "The Man Trap" was to illustrate the "Strange New Worlds" concept. Think if they had gone with "Mudd's Women" as the first one! If I was there, I would have picked "The Enemy Within."

Right out of the box is too early to split your lead, I'd say. We need a few weeks to get to know him before we can do that to him.

I think "The Man Trap"--a good, solid horror story with philosophical underpinnings and a monster that would look right at home on The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone was agood choice. It's been unjustly maligned (by Nimoy, among others) in my opinion.

I don't think Nimoy was the only one who thought that episode wasn't the best choice..and as for Man Trap being unjustly maligned? Well, that may or may not be true, but of the six episodes or so that were in the can, I think Man Trap was the weakest...Enemy From With In, Corbormite, and Charlie X were all in the can, and all were better choices to lead off..IMO

Rob

c5maier October 3 2008 08:45 AM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
It has been stated time and again that NBC was really hooked on the "strange new worlds" aspect of the show right to the end, considering the "bottle shows" (i.e. placed on the ship) to be somehow inferior.
I have to say I prefer a believable ship set over a fake planet set any day, but they thus really limited their choice for opening episode.
But if they really wanted a planet-based story, I still would have advised to show WNMHGB. It had a superior set/matte (with clouds in the sky) and of course a powerful story. The change in some personnel would at that stage not have been too distracting, IMHO. Didn't the girlfriend of Colt in "The Fall Guy" change without explanation between pilot and series? Those things happen.

Kirk here October 3 2008 01:58 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

Elder Knight wrote: (Post 2135202)
As "The Naked Time" was supposed to depict the crew acting out of character, had it been the debut, you wouldn'y know them in character.

(Of course, TNG used their "remake" of this story very early, as I recall.)

Actually, "The Naked Time", *did* show them in character. The whole point was to show what was really inside them, without their masks on.

Shatmandu October 3 2008 03:47 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

Elder Knight wrote: (Post 2135202)
As "The Naked Time" was supposed to depict the crew acting out of character, had it been the debut, you wouldn'y know them in character.

(Of course, TNG used their "remake" of this story very early, as I recall.)

<shudder> All I remember is the gay Asian man sitting indian-style in Engineering.

And WESLEY.

Joe, blocked

Red Ranger October 3 2008 04:05 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Quote:

Shatmandu wrote: (Post 2137757)
Quote:

Elder Knight wrote: (Post 2135202)
As "The Naked Time" was supposed to depict the crew acting out of character, had it been the debut, you wouldn'y know them in character.

(Of course, TNG used their "remake" of this story very early, as I recall.)

<shudder> All I remember is the gay Asian man sitting indian-style in Engineering.

And WESLEY.

Joe, blocked

:guffaw:Reminds me of that old skit on In Living Color, "Men on Film," which featured two gay men and their gay take on movies. They would've loved the "special friendship" between Wesley and that goofy Asian engineer!

Back on topic, if The Corbomite Maneuver was indeed one of the eps in the can, I think that would've been a better debut. It has more of the elements that define TOS than The Man Trap possesses.

Playing Where No Man Has Gone Before first would definitely have been problematic for all the reasons stated above. I like the idea proposed above that it would've been better to do with WNMHGB what was done with the first pilot. Would've been interesting!

Red Ranger

cooleddie74 October 3 2008 08:09 PM

Re: If not MAN TRAP..then what
 
Also, "The Man Trap" had an alien monster in a creepy costume(well, for THEN anyways)to appeal to a wider audience for the premiere episode. Less cerebral and stodgy and more aliens, action and suspense. A continuation of the philosophy that got "WNMHGB" made after "The Cage" failed to get picked up.


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