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Nedersong September 2 2008 05:25 AM

Maquis Rank Pips
 
Why were the Maqui given different rank pips rather than the rest of the Starfleet crew? Wouldn't that still have them stand out?

And personally, I like that rank insignia better than the dots.

Akiraprise September 2 2008 05:52 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
To show that they were provisional NCO's of the Voyager crew and not actual Starfleet officers. I don't remember, but were all the Maquis given a different rank insignia or just the senior officers?

Timo September 2 2008 11:11 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
There were three different Maquis rank pins, although with minor oddities regarding the amount of black on them.

All the insignificant background Maquis characters and one-offs wore the pin with a single black slash. If this corresponded to the single black pip of regular Starfleet personnel, it would signify a noncom - but it was also the pin worn by, say, Ensign Seska.

We could always argue that some of the diagonals were "in fact" bright brass, which would indeed make them nicely match the regular Ensign pip. Our eyes or TV sets just "failed to reveal this".

Similarly, after her promotion to Lieutenant (junior grade) in "Parallax", B'elanna Torres wore a pin with two slashes. Sometimes this pin had one of the slashes colored black, which would correctly match the standard Starfleet usage. Sometimes both slashes appeared bright, though, and sometimes both appeared black. We could again argue that our eyes were playing tricks on us, and that the pin always correctly matched Torres' rank. Thus, we could also argue that she originally was promoted to full Lieutenant (with two bright slashes), and then demoted as the result of her "Prime Factors" mutiny to the junior rank which she rather consistently carries from there on (with the one dark slash).

The third pin, with three slashes, was only worn by Chakotay. One of the slashes was always black, correctly indicating Lieutenant Commander rank (even though Chakotay was never formally addressed by this full rank, the shorthand "Commander" being used instead).

Timo Saloniemi

TEH BABA September 2 2008 02:31 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 2019952)
There were three different Maquis rank pins, although with minor oddities regarding the amount of black on them.

All the insignificant background Maquis characters and one-offs wore the pin with a single black slash. If this corresponded to the single black pip of regular Starfleet personnel, it would signify a noncom - but it was also the pin worn by, say, Ensign Seska.

We could always argue that some of the diagonals were "in fact" bright brass, which would indeed make them nicely match the regular Ensign pip. Our eyes or TV sets just "failed to reveal this".

Similarly, after her promotion to Lieutenant (junior grade) in "Parallax", B'elanna Torres wore a pin with two slashes. Sometimes this pin had one of the slashes colored black, which would correctly match the standard Starfleet usage. Sometimes both slashes appeared bright, though, and sometimes both appeared black. We could again argue that our eyes were playing tricks on us, and that the pin always correctly matched Torres' rank. Thus, we could also argue that she originally was promoted to full Lieutenant (with two bright slashes), and then demoted as the result of her "Prime Factors" mutiny to the junior rank which she rather consistently carries from there on (with the one dark slash).

The third pin, with three slashes, was only worn by Chakotay. One of the slashes was always black, correctly indicating Lieutenant Commander rank (even though Chakotay was never formally addressed by this full rank, the shorthand "Commander" being used instead).

Timo Saloniemi

LT cmdr is always pronounced commander in most navies. :)

Timo September 2 2008 10:32 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
...Yet some still think Chakotay must have been a full Commander because they never heard the "Lieutenant" part spoken out loud on screen. This despite Chakotay's predecessor, Mr Cavit, also having been a Lieutenant Commander "only".

But that's relatively clear-cut. The hairier issue is whether Tuvok was a Lieutenant or a Lieutenant Commander during the first half of Season One. His pins indicated the higher rank, and he did take part in the mutiny that apparently got Torres demoted, soon after which he started wearing the pins for the lower rank. So it would be appealing to think of him as a Lieutenant Commander originally.

But he gets called "Lieutenant" half a dozen times before his pips decrease. Half of those could be interpreted as informal "My right hand" type references rather than actual indications of rank. Alas, the other half consists of formal introductions, sometimes by Tuvok himself, in situations where either the title "Lieutenant Commander" or "Commander" would surely have been used.

Timo Saloniemi

Space Cowboy September 8 2008 11:50 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
It could have been a costuming error...

Timo September 8 2008 11:58 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
...But in the Trek universe, these guys and gals are supposed to costume themselves. (Of course, they can make errors any morning while getting up from the bed with a slight hangover.)

Yeah, in the real universe, the odd pips are of course assorted costuming errors. What we make of the errors is up to us the audience, though. It's not that difficult to squint and see more than three kinds of Maquis pips, preferably so that the squinting removes inconsistencies.

It's a bit more difficult to squint at Tuvok's pips, because they are larger and easier to discern. Which is why I'd very much like to concot an explanation as to how he wore Lieutenant Commander pips for such a long time, and then moved to Lieutenant.

Timo Saloniemi

TEH BABA September 8 2008 01:59 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
Lt. Cmdr would m ake more sense for tuvok given his age. So it would be possible for a vulcan to go from recruit to fleet admiral. :)

Timo September 8 2008 02:09 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
...And back! ;)

It does make sense that Janeway would demote Tuvok after he played a key role in the "Prime Factors" mutiny. And if that really happened, then we might argue that Janeway never ever promoted anybody during the course of the mission. She merely restored the ranks of those she had demoted, namely Tuvok and Paris. Perhaps she felt she wasn't authorized to do true field promotions without contacting Starfleet - and so never promoted Kim, either.

The original assigning of rank to the Maquis notwithstanding, of course. But she might have argued that those never were real ranks...

Timo Saloniemi

JustKate September 8 2008 06:12 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
I don't remember Tuvok's rank insignia, but I am pretty sure he was called "lieutenant" throughout the show, and I dimly recall that at some time or other fairly early on, a reason for this was given. He'd lost rank because he'd left Star Fleet for some reason or other, maybe? I just can't remember. But I do remember a specific conversation between Janeway and Tuvok in either the first or second episode in which Janeway explained why she'd named Chakotay her first officer over Tuvok, and it was to promote unity between the Star Fleet and Maquis elements of the crew. Also, Chakotay did have the qualifications.

But I don't remember the insignia pips. Gladys Knight and the Pips, yes.

nx1701g September 9 2008 12:52 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
^ When the series began he was a Lieutenant Commander but referred to as Lieutenant. By mid first season he was a Lieutenant. Season 4 he was officially promoted to Lieutenant Commander.

LastStarDate September 9 2008 03:22 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
when does this prime factors mutiny take place? I mean, which season?

Timo September 10 2008 01:12 PM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
Towards the end of the first.

Before that, Tuvok had the two-and-a-half Starfleet pips (Lt Cmdr), Tom Paris had two Starfleet pips (Lt), and B'elanna Torres had something that varied from two-halves (??) through one-and-a-half (Lt, jg) through two (Lt) Maquis slashes ("half" meaning black). After that episode, things gradually settled at Tuvok wearing two (Lt), Paris wearing one-and-a-half (Lt, jg) and Torres wearing one-and-a-half (Lt, jg). The change didn't happen at once after "Prime Factors", nor to all the players at the same time. Tuvok's pips changed between scenes in "Cathexis" at the very end of the first season (or actually changed back and forth, as the scenes were filmed in an order different from the one in which they were shown).

Timo Saloniemi

Koinek September 13 2008 05:03 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
I recall that there was a costuming error with Tuvok early on in the show. The rank he was called and the rank he wore were not the same.

The separate insignia make sense from a creative standpoint since we as the viewer can see how characters from the two crews interact with each other, theoretically, without the cliqued, "You're so maquis!" and "you're so starfleet!" being yelled at the start of every scene.

Canonically, I'd imagine the maquis would have wanted to maintain some semblance of their organizational pride. It's not easy to throw off your uniform (or lack thereof) and pick up your enemy's.

plynch February 19 2009 03:34 AM

Re: Maquis Rank Pips
 
Quote:

Killer Koinek wrote: (Post 2063935)
I recall that there was a costuming error with Tuvok early on in the show. The rank he was called and the rank he wore were not the same.

The separate insignia make sense from a creative standpoint since we as the viewer can see how characters from the two crews interact with each other, theoretically, without the cliqued, "You're so maquis!" and "you're so starfleet!" being yelled at the start of every scene.

Canonically, I'd imagine the maquis would have wanted to maintain some semblance of their organizational pride. It's not easy to throw off your uniform (or lack thereof) and pick up your enemy's.

True. Didn't Janeway want to unite the crew, though? You'd think it would be divisive, especially to the real starfleet types, being reminded everyday that these "other" people weren't "real" or fully crew. (I'm sure the reason is that it was t.v., though)


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