The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Science Fiction & Fantasy (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
-   -   So is the pressure on Superman? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=62327)

Galactus August 3 2008 10:33 PM

So is the pressure on Superman?
 
With Iron Man doing 600M and TDK doing 600M in 3 days worldwide, is the pressure on Superman to step up to the plate and actual perform like the #1 super-hero or will we get another under performing movie.

I really want Singer to make the movie now. I am willing to sacrifice my enjoyment of a Superman movie, to see if he can deliver and silence all of his critics. If he does make the movie, what do you think his motivation is? Would it be for money or for professional pride? Is he more artist or business man? Would you have the courage to take the job if he left?

Ok now how many super hero movies do you think we will get now? I can see Venom, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Moon Knight, Nighthawk, Catwoman, Green Arrow get made ASAP to cash in on the superhero craze like everyone is cashing in on the magic craze. Space and traditional sci fi could be dead if Star Trek doesn't perform next year.

The pressure is on!

T'Baio August 3 2008 10:39 PM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
I can't see any movies being greenlit based on the performance of The Dark Knight, other than a third Nolan Batman flick. The out of the norm success of The Dark Knight has nothing to do with it being a comic book movie, but more with media coverage re: Ledger's death and glowing reviews that painfully point out it's "more than just a comic book movie, it's something akin to the Godfather." The latter of which saddens me, because why can't a comic book movie be that good? Regardless, it is these elements that have brought the Joe Blow movie going public to a film they wouldn't otherwise see.

Galactus August 3 2008 11:29 PM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
But we know studios don't care why it made money, just that it made money. TV networks always come up with copy cat shows. Everyone copies each other. I can easily see someone looking to make a movie with a character kinda like Batman that they can make a similar type movie and make some money, cause they know a certain amount of people will think it is like TDK.

I think Joe Six Pack and more importantly Jane Six Pack is going to see this movie because Ledger died in the sort of media plane crash that people love, add to that everyone that sees the movie apparently likes it and there you go. There is no way we will ever know but if Ledger was still alive I don't think it would have done as well, especially not this fast.

I too don't understand why people dislike the concept of comic books so much, but they do regardless of the quality of the work. It is a shame.

StarTrek1701 August 3 2008 11:39 PM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

Galactus wrote: (Post 1905740)
I too don't understand why people dislike the concept of comic books so much, but they do regardless of the quality of the work. It is a shame.

Because comic books, specifically superhero comic books were created to be entertainment fare for children. That perception is still in a lot of people's minds.

Out Of My Vulcan Mind August 3 2008 11:50 PM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
The double whammy of Iron Man and TDK will, in my opinion, keep the green lights coming for superhero films at a fast pace over the next couple of years. In particular I think Warners will finally break the development logjam and give the go-ahead to some DC superhero films outside of Batman and Superman.

If Singer gets to make a sequel to Superman Returns he'll obviously put an immense effort into making it a crowd-pleasing film with plenty of action. He'd have marching orders from the studio to that effect in any event, and he'd be well aware of the need to deliver. I'm not entirely sure we'll get such a sequel, though.

The Dead Mixer August 4 2008 12:21 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

Galactus wrote: (Post 1905593)
I can see Venom, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Moon Knight, Nighthawk, Catwoman, Green Arrow

Other than Venom, are any of these actually in the works? A few of those I find to be pretty far-fetched. Nighthawk--Why? Another Catwoman...!?!

As for Supes, I think TPTB would be happy if they managed to do Iron Man-level numbers, never mind the lofty records being set by TDK...especially since the next film won't have a decade or so of development hell written into the budget.

Superman August 4 2008 12:23 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
I have been feeling some pressure lately, thanks for asking.

Seriously, I think Singer making a sequel to SR will sink Superman as a film franchise for another two decades. I am a critic of his that cannot be silenced.

SR cannot be redeemed. There was no chemistry between the leads, Superman had very little screen time and dialogue, and the entire Super Son concept as put forth in this film is atrocious and irreparable.

I think the studio is facing the reality of this situation. If they let Singer make a sequel, it'll be on THEIR terms now more than ever, in light of TDK. Singer probably won't like that, as he probably wants to make another "woe is me, I'm an outcast victim and Superman should be too" film.

So the WB needs to let Singer go. The fans need to let Singer go. Superman Returns can stand as an epilogue to the Donnerverse, albeit not a very charming or entertaining one.

In about three or four years, someone else needs to start from scratch. That DOESN'T MEAN origin story, it just means getting a new aesthetic distinct from the Donnerverse.

I think the perfect guy to write it is DC Comics's biggest star writer, Geoff Johns. He was Donner's assistant and is a hell of a writer whose "Last Son" arc should have been Superman Returns. Had it been, it would've been a tremendous, rousing, epic TDK type success, and we'd be waiting for a third Superman film now, not hoping one will get made someday.

Johns's arc had Clark exploring fatherhood through adoption (perfect considering his own history), a building of Kryptonian history, and not only Zod and his pals, but an entire army of rogue criminal Kryptonians from The Phantom Zone.

My point is, there are other people out there who can A) do tons better than Singer did and B) deserve their shot.

Singer had his, wasted it, and should be made to move on if he's not willing to do so himself.

\S/

T'Baio August 4 2008 12:23 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Warner's wants another Superman film, they're just not sure how. But I don't think they'd be looking to The Dark Knight for inspiration. Superman Returns was as brooding as I ever thought I'd see Superman, and it didn't work. I think they'd look more to Iron Man, as it definitely had more of the lighter tone they should be going for in a Superman movie.

Stone_Cold_Sisko August 4 2008 12:32 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

T'Baio wrote: (Post 1905605)
I can't see any movies being greenlit based on the performance of The Dark Knight, other than a third Nolan Batman flick. The out of the norm success of The Dark Knight has nothing to do with it being a comic book movie, but more with media coverage re: Ledger's death and glowing reviews that painfully point out it's "more than just a comic book movie, it's something akin to the Godfather." The latter of which saddens me, because why can't a comic book movie be that good?

Mainly because they haven't been.
I know, this is where you list the movies you think are that good, and I disagree, and we quote each other's posts and all that :techman: I'll just cut that short by saying I really like Spidey 2 and the Donner Superman, those are the only two that I'd agree come close to pulling it off. But when you see endless drek like fantastic four, daredevil, this, that, the reputation of "comic book movies" are in my opinion generally deserved, sadly.

The real culprit imo is basically the studios, who don't seem to believe these comic movies need to have credibliity so commission the more hacky-style scripts that we've seen. Many of them are successes so they are probably right.

Out Of My Vulcan Mind August 4 2008 12:33 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
It was the success of Iron Man, before TDK was even released, that led to Warner execs sitting down with top DC writers and artists to get their views on the best cinematic approach to take with DC's superhero characters.

StarTrek1701 August 4 2008 12:37 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

Superman wrote: (Post 1906039)
I have been feeling some pressure lately, thanks for asking.

Seriously, I think Singer making a sequel to SR will sink Superman as a film franchise for another two decades. I am a critic of his that cannot be silenced.

SR cannot be redeemed. There was no chemistry between the leads, Superman had very little screen time and dialogue, and the entire Super Son concept as put forth in this film is atrocious and irreparable.

I think the studio is facing the reality of this situation. If they let Singer make a sequel, it'll be on THEIR terms now more than ever, in light of TDK. Singer probably won't like that, as he probably wants to make another "woe is me, I'm an outcast victim and Superman should be too" film.

So the WB needs to let Singer go. The fans need to let Singer go. Superman Returns can stand as an epilogue to the Donnerverse, albeit not a very charming or entertaining one.

In about three or four years, someone else needs to start from scratch. That DOESN'T MEAN origin story, it just means getting a new aesthetic distinct from the Donnerverse.

I think the perfect guy to write it is DC Comics's biggest star writer, Geoff Johns. He was Donner's assistant and is a hell of a writer whose "Last Son" arc should have been Superman Returns. Had it been, it would've been a tremendous, rousing, epic TDK type success, and we'd be waiting for a third Superman film now, not hoping one will get made someday.

Johns's arc had Clark exploring fatherhood through adoption (perfect considering his own history), a building of Kryptonian history, and not only Zod and his pals, but an entire army of rogue criminal Kryptonians from The Phantom Zone.

My point is, there are other people out there who can A) do tons better than Singer did and B) deserve their shot.

Singer had his, wasted it, and should be made to move on if he's not willing to do so himself.

\S/

...brother? :D

Seriously, I agree with every point Superman (haha) made. He speaks the truth, Singer had his chance and blew it, outcast gay style.

Yes, the pun was intended. :p

Timby August 4 2008 12:38 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

Superman wrote: (Post 1906039)
I think the perfect guy to write it is DC Comics's biggest star writer, Geoff Johns.

Being a talented comic writer =/= being a talented film screenwriter.

CaptainCanada August 4 2008 01:24 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: (Post 1905857)
In particular I think Warners will finally break the development logjam and give the go-ahead to some DC superhero films outside of Batman and Superman.

Never underestimate WB's power to not do anything with their wealth of valuable film properties.

Superman August 4 2008 01:50 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
Quote:

JKTim wrote: (Post 1906113)
Quote:

Superman wrote: (Post 1906039)
I think the perfect guy to write it is DC Comics's biggest star writer, Geoff Johns.

Being a talented comic writer =/= being a talented film screenwriter.

As I pointed out, Johns was Donner's assistant. He also wrote for the Blade TV series and he'll be introducing The Legion of Superheroes to Smallville.

I'm sure a man of his talent can write a screenplay. Look at the crap that gets produced these days and convince me otherwise.

\S/

CaptainCanada August 4 2008 02:10 AM

Re: So is the pressure on Superman?
 
It would be great to have Johns consult (like Marvel had Joey Q, Bendis, Millar and others give input for Iron Man), but I wouldn't want him to write it; his take on Superman is coated in nostaglia for an era I feel no nostalgia for.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.