The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek Movies I-X (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42)
-   -   The Rugrat of Khan (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=34153)

Maurice July 15 2007 07:50 PM

The Rugrat of Khan
 
The topic of the Khan "baby" has been discussed to death in previous threads such as this: Children on "Botany Bay" and TWOK

But today as I was going through my morge of magazine clippings I found two photos which should clarify the issue of the baby from TWOK. The following were scanned from a short-lived magazine called RetroVision, and appared in issue #2 in an article called Star Trek Outtakes, by Tom Rogers.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1302/...3aa484a1_o.jpg

18 ANGLE - THEIR POV 18

A RUINED SERIES OF MAN-MADE STRUCTURES, half buried in
sand...

As Chekov looks at the porthole, a face suddenly looks
back! It is the face of a CHILD! The Apparition
scares the daylights out of Chekov -- and us. He
screams.

TERRELL
(continuing)
What is it?

He comes clumsily over --

CHEKOV
A face! I saw -- it was like a
child --


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1419/...41fb7f1379.jpg
Click HERE for a higher rez version


(Note the stuffed animal behind the Genesis torpedo, probably used to entice the kid towards the prop.)


213A INT. RELIANT TRANSPORTER ROOM 213A

There sits the Genesis torpedo: lights start blinking
in response. As we watch, the CHILD we met on Ceti Alpha
walks to the torpedo and smiles at the lights.



The second image relates to this image posted in another thread by LavianoTS386:


M July 15 2007 08:28 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
I don't really understand. Do these pictures mean that there was a deleted scene featuring the described script lines? Why wasn't it used? And what does this child have to do with the Genesis device? Wasn't the other discussion about Joachim/Joaquin being Khan's son? Or at least about the strange youthful appearance of Khan's followers?

Am I the only one who is a little puzzled? :confused:

Maurice July 15 2007 08:35 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
The photos make it clear they were shot...the scenes with the baby were edited out of the finished film...probably because they didn't matter to the story, and maybe because there was some concern about blowing up and killing a baby.

Peach Wookiee July 15 2007 08:44 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
^That implication may have meant an R rating...

Therin of Andor July 15 2007 10:43 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Quote:

Belar said:
I don't really understand. Do these pictures mean that there was a deleted scene featuring the described script lines? Why wasn't it used? And what does this child have to do with the Genesis device?

There was also a set decoration created of a painting of Marla, Khan and child, but it was not seen onscreen.

Yes, there was a concern that the film's rating would have been affected if the child had gone kablooey with Reliant.

Quote:

Wasn't the other discussion about Joachim/Joaquin being Khan's son?

I got to spend a week entertaining Judson Scott when he was in Australia for a convention in the 80s. He said that he and Ricardo Montalban used to get together to rehearse, before filming commenced, and that the angle they developed was that Khan and Joachim were father and son. But that didn't necessarily agree with the script or novelization.

It's more likely that Joachim was Joaquin (Mark Tobin from "Space Seed")'s son. And this is the angle used by Greg Cox's novel "To Reign in Hell". Also in the book, their Eugenics genes meant accelerated growth in their teens, but there was a "throwback" effect that made all the children be blond/blue-eyed.

Sharr Khan July 16 2007 12:44 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Quote:

a painting of Marla, Khan and child

What are the chances that is available some place online?

Sharr

WalkinMan July 16 2007 06:22 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
My reaction to "The Khan baby" is that this is a weirdly fascinating detail which adds to the rich backstory of this film. I wonder if there are such deleted moments which add this interesting facet to other Trek films. Probably not.

At the same time it's very disturbing, there's something macabre about having a baby crawling on a transporter pad--any pad in Trek--much less with the near-detonating Genesis Device on it.

I agree with the decision to pull the scene out, at the same time I wonder what an R-rated TWoK would have been like. And, if Marla McGivers were in the film.

Borjis July 16 2007 07:46 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
all of those shots are rather creepy.

Glad they left them out altogether.

Therin of Andor July 16 2007 08:45 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Quote:

WalkinMan said:
I agree with the decision to pull the scene out.

Having the baby onscreen also clearly infers that Marla's death was very recent. Without the child on board, we might assume that Marla died over 14 years ago, and Khan had all that time to go insane.

As for unused footage, the "child's face in the window" has the added problem of Nick Meyer improvising, and getting the only available (white) stunt person on duty that day to do the scene - in blackface makeup - of Terrell rolling down the hill, having received a fright (ie. the stunt fall wasn't scripted).

When I did an interview with Paul Winfield, just before the film came out, he said that the production was reported to the Stunt Actors Guild for that breach of protocol. As in, it was disadvantaging opportunities for African American stunt workers. So we are unlikely ever to see that scene.

Re the painting. I've never seen an image on the 'Net, but it was definitely created. Judson Scott described it to us at the convention. (You'll recall "Space Seed" established Marla as a portrait painter.)

Maurice July 17 2007 07:10 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
^^^That's only if you assume the child is Khan's and Marla's. Nothing in the script indicates that.

Therin of Andor July 17 2007 07:47 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Quote:

DS9Sega said:
^^^That's only if you assume the child is Khan's and Marla's. Nothing in the script indicates that.

No, but the painting (mentioned earlier) was also intended to be seen.

Peach Wookiee July 17 2007 07:22 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
That might explain why Khan went loco... Not that he wasn't already...

Holytomato July 22 2007 06:05 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Nuts! This one of the reasons I don't like the TOS movies. Great scenes like this are cut out. Time to read The Khan Saga

(Blish's Space Seed, Wrath of Khan, and To Reign in Hell I-III) again

Maurice July 22 2007 06:19 PM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Great scenes are cut out of everything, be it movies or TV shows. But it's the overall film that matters, and not everything "fits" in matters of pacing, theme, or raises questions that distract from the story.

defconprime July 23 2007 06:47 AM

Re: The Rugrat of Khan
 
Wait, are you guys joking? Those images look really fake.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.