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-   -   Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=247306)

teacake June 18 2014 02:08 AM

Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction?
 
Seriously this happens all the time, even someone as useless as Harry Kim managed to go back in time and wrench the timeline back to his preferred trajectory.

Every single Vulcan survivor would like to see their planet not destroyed. Vulcans are hugely intelligent and given to monomania, one of them being tipped over the edge of deeeep research into obsession seems likely.

You know if one of them wanted to either stop the destruction and crush the timelines back together OR jump timeline and exist in the one where Vulcan survives they could. They could totally do it. Might take a few decades though who knows, maybe a whole sect of Return to the Timeline Vulcans will spring up and it will go faster than that. The E2 crew devoted generations to saving Earth.

BillJ June 18 2014 02:28 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
I think the problem is, from Spock's perspective the universe he arrived in had been going for twenty-five years. There's a lot more to it than just saving Vulcan. He would be changing the lives of trillions for personal gain.

I doubt he would pull a Janeway.

Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9719518)
Might take a few decades though who knows, maybe a whole sect of Return to the Timeline Vulcans will spring up and it will go faster than that.

Who knows if anyone outside of the Enterprise command crew know that Nero was from the future. There may be very few people that know Spock Prime is from the future.

teacake June 18 2014 02:39 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Well I didn't say Spock. He is too old and sensible.

With the destruction of Vulcan a massive cultural vacuum has taken place, all the heavy handed cultural expectations and social canon, if you will, is gone. Scrabbling around with the pragmatics of not dying out as a species will take precedence. It's the perfect lab experiment for extremists.

Spock is not keeping his true self a secret. No trouble making a phone call to him, no chatting in the ready room for privacy. There will be Vulcans asking questions.

I can see some young Vulcan in the Save the Sehlats breeding program putting it altogether and asking why are we messing about with saving species one by one when we could save the entire planet?

Melakon June 18 2014 02:53 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
You know, that might be a way to work Saavik into the alternate universe, with her goal being to restore Vulcan.

Shat Happens June 18 2014 03:04 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9719518)
even someone as useless as Harry Kim managed to

LOL love the use of that phrase for context

"it's so easy even Harry Kim could do it"

Only now it occured to me that Star Trek has a small pantheon of useless idiots who are there just to suffer. Chekov, Kim, OBrien...

Well, that's my off topic post. Carry on.

Melakon June 18 2014 03:08 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
O'Brien's not an idiot though. Just a little stubborn.

teacake June 18 2014 03:14 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Keiko thinks he's an idiot.

Also Saavik would totally do that!! AND WE COULD HAVE HER AGAIN.

This is a good plan.

doubleohfive June 18 2014 05:07 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
Probably not. But if Nero did, I'd be mighty interested in seeing how the writers pull that off.

teacake June 18 2014 05:29 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
I'd rather have a Vulcan that was on the one hand an extremist and possibly mad but also sympathetic. Because, his planet. No, he should not be called Soran.

LMFAOschwarz June 18 2014 06:21 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
That's where the movie lost me. The Spock we've always known would have done something. Here, it was almost like he was doing his own version of cooking eggs, and saying he'd done his bit for King and Country...

MakeshiftPython June 18 2014 06:48 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9720481)
I'd rather have a Vulcan that was on the one hand an extremist and possibly mad but also sympathetic. Because, his planet. No, he should not be called Soran.

He should be Sybok.

If you wanna have these films redo things from the previous films and shows, I'd actually like them to go for something that didn't work well and re-imagine it in a way that makes more dramatic sense, as opposed to simply reusing a villain like Khan because he's popular. My idea of following up on Vulcan's destruction was having Sybok lead a group of Vulcan terrorists that attack Romulan colonies, believing the Romulan government was responsible for Vulcan's destruction despite Nero claiming not to have any ties. His group of followers are Vulcans who've had a hard time coping with the trauma of losing their home planet, friends, family, and so he takes them under his wing and makes them believe that the only way of truly healing is to "get back" at the Romulans.

Romulans then come to the Federation and tell them to take care of Sybok and his band of terrorists, or else they'll believe they're condoning Sybok's actions or that he's actually working for the Federation, thus there will be the first war between Romulans and Federation in a hundred years. Kirk is assigned to track down Sybok and stop him, with the help of Spock of course who's well acquainted with Sybok (whether they're half-brothers or former colleagues).

If this were a TV show reboot rather than a film reboot, I could see the writers somehow finding stories in the aftermath of Vulcan's destruction and its consequences, but since these are films being made every three to four years, it's unlikely they'd even touch that thread.

teacake June 18 2014 07:29 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

LMFAOschwarz wrote: (Post 9720610)
That's where the movie lost me. The Spock we've always known would have done something. Here, it was almost like he was doing his own version of cooking eggs, and saying he'd done his bit for King and Country...

It is because he is old and zen.

Quote:

MakeshiftPython wrote: (Post 9720673)
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9720481)
I'd rather have a Vulcan that was on the one hand an extremist and possibly mad but also sympathetic. Because, his planet. No, he should not be called Soran.

He should be Sybok.

If you wanna have these films redo things from the previous films and shows, I'd actually like them to go for something that didn't work well and re-imagine it in a way that makes more dramatic sense, as opposed to simply reusing a villain like Khan because he's popular. My idea of following up on Vulcan's destruction was having Sybok lead a group of Vulcan terrorists that attack Romulan colonies, believing the Romulan government was responsible for Vulcan's destruction despite Nero claiming not to have any ties. His group of followers are Vulcans who've had a hard time coping with the trauma of losing their home planet, friends, family, and so he takes them under his wing and makes them believe that the only way of truly healing is to "get back" at the Romulans.

Romulans then come to the Federation and tell them to take care of Sybok and his band of terrorists, or else they'll believe they're condoning Sybok's actions or that he's actually working for the Federation, thus there will be the first war between Romulans and Federation in a hundred years. Kirk is assigned to track down Sybok and stop him, with the help of Spock of course who's well acquainted with Sybok (whether they're half-brothers or former colleagues).

If this were a TV show reboot rather than a film reboot, I could see the writers somehow finding stories in the aftermath of Vulcan's destruction and its consequences, but since these are films being made every three to four years, it's unlikely they'd even touch that thread.

This is all excellent.

I am a huge Sybok fan (yes I can hear y'all rolling your eyes). I would love to see his return especially if we're endlessly revisiting Trek people which may well end up being the case. I agree with the highlighted portion, there is a very interesting story to be told in the rebuilding of Vulcan but it's unlikely to happen in movies, or I suspect Treklit.

However. I want Sybok to fail. I don't want the timeline restored and I don't want Vulcan back, I want to have it's loss as a backdrop of all Vulcan interactions in the future of Trek.

LMFAOschwarz June 18 2014 07:34 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Thou arenst alone, O teacake: Sybok is great.

BigJake June 18 2014 07:35 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9719518)
Seriously this happens all the time, even someone as useless as Harry Kim managed to go back in time and wrench the timeline back to his preferred trajectory.

I'm not sure about this, but I have the feeling that outside the initial incident that incept... ed the JJVerse, there is probably not going to be a lot of mucking about with the timestream in NuTrek.

Just on the meta-account of it's a trope people kinda tired of by the time the "Prime" timeline ran its course.

Having said that, I think an adventure with the antagonists as a bunch of Vulcans trying to stop the Narada would actually be pretty fun; kind of a Vulcan parallel to the moral dilemma of City At the Edge of Forever.

LMFAOschwarz June 18 2014 07:41 AM

Re: Will a "Hero" try and go back in time and fix Vulcan's Destruction
 
Quote:

BigJake wrote: (Post 9720757)
Having said that, I think an adventure with the antagonists as a bunch of Vulcans trying to stop the Narada would actually be pretty fun; kind of a Vulcan parallel to the moral dilemma of City At the Edge of Forever.

Well said, Jake! :)


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