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-   -   "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes." (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=244879)

Flying Spaghetti Monster May 16 2014 01:00 PM

"...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Ok, the sheer number of torpedoes and all the talk about them is one thing that made it really hard for me to swallow what happens in this film. The only reason they have seventy-two torpedoes is that the original episode stated that Khan had seventy-two crewmen, and if each torpedo carries a crewman, there you go. But for a film like this, it's just too many torpedoes.

- You don't need that many torpedoes to kill one dude on a planet. One would suffice, and maybe bring an extra one.

- The Enterprise suddenly became equipped with torpedo launchers on the side of the ship. These are later called "tubes". It's ridiculous that it would have so many launchers. Are they all on the same side of the ship?

- We find out later the cryo-tubes (more than one use of the word "tubes" because these writers can't write) are inside the torpedoes are in the torpedoes. The script explicitly states that the fuel components were removed so the cases can be retrofitted to store the crew-members. So what the hell would have happened if Sulu didn't hear from Harrison (we never saw whether he did or not) and he decided to "unload the entire payload"? They had no fuel and would have probably not launch at all.

- But my biggest problem is at the end. The Enterprise is critically damaged, and there are gaping holes in the hull and there's red alert with an eminent threat, and somehow Spock manages to find enough experts to take the cryo-tubes out of the torpedoes and re-arm the torpedoes (of course, the ship took heavy damage but none of the torpedoes ever got hit). And all this experts did this in less than five minutes. What's more, they did it while torpedoes were still in those tubes (which we see how small those tubes are).. How can you do delicate engineering work in that space.

Because Khan says the "torpedoes are still in their tubes".

If they only had five torpedoes or so, I probably would go easier on this. 72 is too unwieldy. It's isn't a number, it's fan-service.

Dennis May 16 2014 02:04 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Not seeing a problem with any of this, dude.

JarodRussell May 16 2014 02:06 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

BobOrci wrote:
That's why I get to write scripts, and you don't.

Tihihi.

Set Harth May 16 2014 02:47 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:
The script explicitly states that the fuel components were removed so the cases can be retrofitted to store the crew-members. So what the hell would have happened if Sulu didn't hear from Harrison (we never saw whether he did or not) and he decided to "unload the entire payload"? They had no fuel and would have probably not launch at all.

Though it is commonly assumed that the retrofitting completely removed the fuel from the torpedoes, that isn't necessarily the case. The plot depends on Marcus knowing Khan's people were in the torpedoes and still expecting Kirk to fire them. We should not forget that the torpedoes were designed by Khan and they may have been intentionally over-specced.

Tom Servo May 16 2014 02:48 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
If you can't get past this but you can get past the Genesis torpedo and the Reliant, a science vessel, mis counting the number of planets in a solar system, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jedi_Master May 16 2014 02:54 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
It's fiction bro. Just sit back and enjoy, and if you can't enjoy, then don't watch.

JarodRussell May 16 2014 02:55 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Tom Servo wrote: (Post 9588724)
If you can't get past this but you can get past the Genesis torpedo and the Reliant, a science vessel, mis counting the number of planets in a solar system, then I don't know what to tell you.

In what way are these issues comparable?

Jedi_Master May 16 2014 03:00 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

JarodRussell wrote: (Post 9588745)
Quote:

Tom Servo wrote: (Post 9588724)
If you can't get past this but you can get past the Genesis torpedo and the Reliant, a science vessel, mis counting the number of planets in a solar system, then I don't know what to tell you.

In what way are these issues comparable?

They are plot holes and/or discrepancies.

Common to every movie, book, TV series, etc.

Kirby May 16 2014 05:49 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Jedi_Master wrote: (Post 9588730)
It's fiction bro. Just sit back and enjoy, and if you can't enjoy, then don't watch.

This covers just about everything. Now we can close 80% of the threads on the internet.

Opus May 16 2014 06:05 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
But, but... If we close down 80% of Star Trek griping, Trek fans will have nothing to congregate about! A complete shutdown of shut-in communications! Parents basements filled with the smell of rotting corpses and Cheetos...

JarodRussell May 16 2014 06:21 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Jedi_Master wrote: (Post 9588766)
Quote:

JarodRussell wrote: (Post 9588745)
Quote:

Tom Servo wrote: (Post 9588724)
If you can't get past this but you can get past the Genesis torpedo and the Reliant, a science vessel, mis counting the number of planets in a solar system, then I don't know what to tell you.

In what way are these issues comparable?

They are plot holes and/or discrepancies.

Common to every movie, book, TV series, etc.

And plot holes are binary?

Jedi_Master May 16 2014 06:29 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Opus wrote: (Post 9589309)
But, but... If we close down 80% of Star Trek griping, Trek fans will have nothing to congregate about! A complete shutdown of shut-in communications! Parents basements filled with the smell of rotting corpses and Cheetos...

Sounds like a public health emergency. I do want to know how exactly Kirby arrived at his "80%" figure. By my calculations I would estimate 56.5% of all threads would have to be closed, and I have several blueprints and technical layouts from the original designers of the Internet that I can use to prove MY point. So unless Kirby is trying to use the "alternate universe" theory of the Internet, then I don't see how he arrived at that number.

The Stig May 16 2014 07:53 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

JarodRussell wrote: (Post 9589384)
Quote:

Jedi_Master wrote: (Post 9588766)
Quote:

JarodRussell wrote: (Post 9588745)

In what way are these issues comparable?

They are plot holes and/or discrepancies.

Common to every movie, book, TV series, etc.

And plot holes are binary?

Of course not. It is interesting, however, to discuss why '72 torpedoes' is more or less bothersome than the Reliant not noticing an entire missing planet.

Jedi_Master May 16 2014 08:03 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
^That's my basic point. I certainly don't mind discussion of BIG issues, large plot holes, continuity issues, etc. If we didn't talk about those, then we might just as well all move over to the My Little Pony boards.

But this IMO does not qualify, as Starfleet vessels have always carried far too many weapons, those weapons have had varying amounts of destructive power, and anyone who actually keeps track of how long it takes in "real time" for events to happen will always be amazed at how fast or slow "story time" can move.

YARN May 16 2014 08:16 PM

Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."
 
Quote:

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: (Post 9588484)
Ok, the sheer number of torpedoes and all the talk about them is one thing that made it really hard for me to swallow what happens in this film. The only reason they have seventy-two torpedoes is that the original episode stated that Khan had seventy-two crewmen, and if each torpedo carries a crewman, there you go. But for a film like this, it's just too many torpedoes.

- You don't need that many torpedoes to kill one dude on a planet. One would suffice, and maybe bring an extra one.

- The Enterprise suddenly became equipped with torpedo launchers on the side of the ship. These are later called "tubes". It's ridiculous that it would have so many launchers. Are they all on the same side of the ship?

- We find out later the cryo-tubes (more than one use of the word "tubes" because these writers can't write) are inside the torpedoes are in the torpedoes. The script explicitly states that the fuel components were removed so the cases can be retrofitted to store the crew-members. So what the hell would have happened if Sulu didn't hear from Harrison (we never saw whether he did or not) and he decided to "unload the entire payload"? They had no fuel and would have probably not launch at all.

- But my biggest problem is at the end. The Enterprise is critically damaged, and there are gaping holes in the hull and there's red alert with an eminent threat, and somehow Spock manages to find enough experts to take the cryo-tubes out of the torpedoes and re-arm the torpedoes (of course, the ship took heavy damage but none of the torpedoes ever got hit). And all this experts did this in less than five minutes. What's more, they did it while torpedoes were still in those tubes (which we see how small those tubes are).. How can you do delicate engineering work in that space.

Because Khan says the "torpedoes are still in their tubes".

If they only had five torpedoes or so, I probably would go easier on this. 72 is too unwieldy. It's isn't a number, it's fan-service.

The problem is that when you start to think about it (who is fooling whom and for what purpose) the plot doesn't make a lot of sense.


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