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-   -   Star Trek V - The Dream Theory (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=243037)

Khan 2.0 April 21 2014 04:40 PM

Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
If you look at TFF as a strange dream of Kirks...from the first campsite scene post mountain fall to right at the end of the film with the 'Row Row Row your boat' reprise..then its possible that Trek V is actually a Shatnerian masterpiece of modern day cinema like a Blade Runner or Inception

Consider:

- The events of the movie are a reflection of Kirk's fears: being put back into action while he's unprepared, geting screwed by Starfleet, losing his crew and losing, above all, his friends.

- Events/discussions from the camping trip are mirrored/manifested in the dream: climbing El Capitan/climbing the mountain at the end...the fall from El Capitan/the fall from the turbo shaft...musing around the campfire/musing around the steering wheel....Kirks fear of dying alone/being alone on an uncharted planet with a Godlike alien that wants to kill him.

- The broken and unreliable Enterprise is another fear of Kirk; that no ship can live up to the original.

- The movie follows dream logic: characters appear when needed (rocket booted Spock in the turboshaft, Scotty in the brig, Spock in the BoP) and reality 'warps' to accomodate the story (70+ decks, the mysterious wheel room, unicorns, sybok, God)

- Kirk ate gods for breakfast, so its no surprise they show up in his dreams. The fight against God' is Kirks subconscious idea of a generic adventure. Likewise, a Klingon is his idea of a generic villain. Also the whole fake God thing can be interpreted as Kirk's own atheist belief that there is no higher power.

- Spock having a brother which was never mentioned before.

- The romantic relationship between Scotty and Uhura.

- A 30 year plus impossible journey to the centre of the galaxy that happens in a few hours.

-the whole Sybok healing everyones pain and the fact that Kirk, Spock and Bones could see each other's illusionary flashbacks.

- the song 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' ends with the line 'life is but a dream'

- when going through the great barrier and the 3 are in the mysterious wheel room Bones asks 'are we dreaming?' and Kirk goes 'if we are..then life is a dream'

- Being chased by a floating God head which shoots lightning bolts from it's eyes would have had a very nightmare like quality to it

-The Klingons coming to Kirk's rescue is Kirk's subconcious trying to forgive the Klingon's for the death of his son.

- In the end, Spocks saves his ass, just like he saved Spocks.

- Kirk, Spock and Bones remain together for much of the movie..just like at the campsite..

- And of course the story starting and ending in the same spot, with the Kirk, Spock and McCoy wearing the same clothes.

When you look at the movie as a nightmare, a reflection of Kirks subconscious fears and desires, it actually, somehow, makes *more* sense. In fact, it starts making a *lot* of sense ..

When people finally realise this what Shatner did its going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever....just like was Deckard a Replicant? did the totem fall?

Kevman7987 April 21 2014 04:59 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Just, wow...

Two things;

1. I thought the answer to both the Blade Runner & Inception questions was finally settled as a Yes by the directors, actors, and producers. Therefore, your theory is correct.

2. I never thought that way about this movie before. In this case, this is the greatest Trek movie.

Vger23 April 21 2014 05:18 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
I have mixed feelings about this. In one way...it makes sense and fixes a lot of issues. In another, it kind of "minimizes" the film a bit, and this happens to be a movie I have a soft spot for...!

Interesting stuff though!

SimpleLogic April 21 2014 08:47 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Maybe the dream theory could be even more interesting if the "Evil God" took the form of Gary Mitchell (One of Kirk's failures coming back to haunt him)

USS Triumphant April 21 2014 09:54 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
I like this a lot. I especially like it if instead of a dream, it is the last thoughts Kirk's fading, dying mind had on Veridian III. He always knew he'd die alone, but in the end, his friends were right there with him, in his mind and his heart.

2takesfrakes April 21 2014 10:18 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Personally, I'd love to dismiss STAR TREK V: The Final Frontier as some soap-opera'ish "it was all just a bad dream" ploy, but William Shatner, himself, has stated that he hates those kinds of stories and I am forced to reject this theory. Understand I do not care for this ... ugh! ... (what word?) this "film" at all, but t'was always intended to be a part of the STAR TREK universe. This "happened." It was "real." Spock has a brother and ... he feels your pain.

Melakon April 21 2014 10:20 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
The biggest problem I have with the theory is Shatner doesn't mention anything close to this in Star Trek Movie Memories.

Vger23 April 21 2014 10:28 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
I think it comes down to "personal canon" and how you create stories or excuses in your mind to deal with the less-desirable aspects of Star Trek.

I personally find this kind of approach far more interesting and productive than just getting mad and bashing the ever-living snot out of something.

2takesfrakes April 21 2014 10:38 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
STAR TREK: The Next Generation is all "real." Every last bit of it. And the TOS episodes it references are real. The rest of the franchise, the jury is out on.

King Daniel Into Darkness April 22 2014 12:09 AM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
I like Star Trek V, so I bristle at the idea that it was somehow more make believe than the rest of make believe Trek. As ridiculous as that sounds.

DS9 on the other hand, that's all just Benny Russell's stories.:p

bbailey861 April 22 2014 02:20 AM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Quote:

2takesfrakes wrote: (Post 9497899)
STAR TREK: The Next Generation is all "real." Every last bit of it. And the TOS episodes it references are real. The rest of the franchise, the jury is out on.

I liked this movie but the ending, Kirk's death specifically, was poorly, poorly done. For this, I blame the writing. 2takesfrakes, your loyalty to TNG is admirable. Laughable, at times, but admirable.

Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 9498130)
I like Star Trek V, so I bristle at the idea that it was somehow more make believe than the rest of make believe Trek. As ridiculous as that sounds.

DS9 on the other hand, that's all just Benny Russell's stories.:p

I also liked Star Trek V, but the infamous "Faux God and rock monsters that never were' scene was also poorly, poorly done. I would like to know if a higher budget and better effects would have made it better.

Khan 2.0, The whole dream theory idea was well thought out and interesting idea, though.

Christopher April 22 2014 03:21 AM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
I've occasionally thought that Voyager's "Threshold" might be redeemable if everything after Paris's transwarp flight is a dream or hallucination he experiences.

A bigger budget or better effects would not have improved ST V, because its problems are conceptual. It didn't need more added (especially rock monsters, which would've been a really stupid climax for a story about a quest for God), it needed stuff deleted. Cut out the three lines about the center of the galaxy, cut out the impossibly high turboshaft, cut out Scotty hitting his head on a pipe, cut out Uhura flirting with Scotty, maybe change the photon torpedoes at the climax to phasers (because antimatter warheads going off that close to the leads would vaporize them and everything for kilometers around them, not just knock them off their feet), and it becomes a much smarter movie.

Agenda April 22 2014 04:29 AM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Star Trek V was Kirk's dream and my nightmare.

TREK_GOD_1 April 22 2014 01:52 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 9498658)
I've occasionally thought that Voyager's "Threshold" might be redeemable if everything after Paris's transwarp flight is a dream or hallucination he experiences.

A bigger budget or better effects would not have improved ST V, because its problems are conceptual. It didn't need more added (especially rock monsters, which would've been a really stupid climax for a story about a quest for God), it needed stuff deleted. Cut out the three lines about the center of the galaxy, cut out the impossibly high turboshaft, cut out Scotty hitting his head on a pipe, cut out Uhura flirting with Scotty, maybe change the photon torpedoes at the climax to phasers (because antimatter warheads going off that close to the leads would vaporize them and everything for kilometers around them, not just knock them off their feet), and it becomes a much smarter movie.

Interesting suggestions. I wonder if there's enough surviving cut/alternate footage to replace the problem scenes and come away with something stronger?

Shat Happens April 22 2014 02:44 PM

Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory
 
Quote:

Khan 2.0 wrote: (Post 9496792)
If you look at TFF as a strange dream of Kirks...from the first campsite scene post mountain fall to right at the end of the film with the 'Row Row Row your boat' reprise..

Thta explains DECK 87 too!

Quote:

bbailey861 wrote: (Post 9498484)
2takesfrakes, your loyalty to TNG is admirable. Laughable, at times, but admirable.

http://x1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comme...c611130c7b.jpg


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