The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Deep Space Nine (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40)
-   -   Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor) (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=240724)

poloronbeam March 20 2014 06:26 AM

Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Off the bat, I have to say that Garak was hands down one of my favorite characters on DS9. But something has always puzzled me. Why did the Bajorans allow Garak to stay on DS9 (Terek Nor) after the occupation? We know why HE had to say, but why did the Bajorans allow him to stay? To my recollection, there were no canon sources that addressed the Bajorans motivation for letting him stay. Did he bribe/blackmail a Bajoran official? Any Speculation?

Mr. Laser Beam March 20 2014 06:33 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
They probably considered it poetic justice, in a way - a Cardassian, *any* Cardassian, being forced to stay behind while all of his fellows leave. They wanted Garak to feel alone and abandoned.

Now of course the Bajorans didn't openly harass or torture Garak. Just having him be there, alone and (as far as they knew) helpless, was all the revenge they needed.

Plus, as Garak himself said: he's a very good tailor, after all. :)

GalaxyX March 20 2014 06:39 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
While I like Garak, I don't see why so many people see him as their favorite character.

It's interesting that the Bajorans left him alone for the most part. We know there's a lot of Bajorans who are angry and will attack any Cardassian no matter who.

I guess the writers had to sort of leave the plothole open for his premise to work.

Mr. Laser Beam March 20 2014 06:42 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
^ Plus I'm sure Garak had a fair amount of self-defense training. Any Bajoran who tried to attack him would probably not live too long.

od0_ital March 20 2014 07:18 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Because to target him specifically and say that a law-abidin' (as far as they knew) private citizen couldn't open and run a business on their Federation-administrated space station would send the wrong message to the Federation about their policies of diversity and equality & stuff.

Melakon March 20 2014 07:20 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Garak didn't establish the tailor shop until the Cardassians abandoned the station and Starfleet took over operations. Sisko allowed him to stay, on the chance that he might have access to sensitive information. Since he had Starfleet's approval, that might have been enough for the Bajorans to avoid making trouble.

doctorfoto March 20 2014 09:06 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

Let me tell you a story. I once knew a Cardassian, a dashing, handsome young man with a promising career. And then one day, through no fault of his own, he found himself exiled and alone, with nowhere to turn. But did he give up? No. Instead he struck upon a brilliant plan. Rather than fleeing for the rest of his life, he sought shelter in the one place no one expected him to go. In a stronghold of his people's most hated enemies. There, surrounded by hostile strangers, he built a life. And there, against all odds, against the merciless logic of the Universe itself, he thrived.
This quote from Garak to Ziyal in A Call to Arms to me implies that although Garak's exile from Cardassia wasn't his choice, it was actually his idea to live among the Bajorans, even if it wasn't ideal. I would guess that Garak requested and was granted asylum from the Bajoran government as he "sought shelter" among them.

Timo March 20 2014 09:45 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

We know there's a lot of Bajorans who are angry and will attack any Cardassian no matter who.
...And these people won't be the ones who establish businesses aboard the formerly Cardassian space station. So Garak has found the sweet spot: in the middle of Cardassian-haters, but at the calm eye of the storm at the same time.

How long the station remained in anarchy (or potentially iron Bajoran grip) between Cardassian departure and Starfleet arrival, we don't know exactly. There was a Starfleet presence there already before Sisko arrived: the E-D folks were patching up the worst of the damage, and even they were not credited as having been the very first.

What happened immediately after the Cardassian exodus is also unclear. It apparently really happened overnight, without much warning, and the Cardassians who did the leaving were probably divided between those swearing never to return, those who were sure they were going to return in, oh, about six days, eight at most, and then Bajor would have hell to pay - and those very few who saw the whole picture, knew that Cardassian internal politics would prevent a return, and foresaw UFP meddling and the opportunities inherent in Cardassia maintaining a more clandestine or indirect presence.

Garak would probably be quick to recover and take his place in the latter lot...

Timo Saloniemi

poloronbeam March 20 2014 03:19 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

Timo wrote: (Post 9380818)
Quote:

We know there's a lot of Bajorans who are angry and will attack any Cardassian no matter who.
...And these people won't be the ones who establish businesses aboard the formerly Cardassian space station. So Garak has found the sweet spot: in the middle of Cardassian-haters, but at the calm eye of the storm at the same time.

How long the station remained in anarchy (or potentially iron Bajoran grip) between Cardassian departure and Starfleet arrival, we don't know exactly. There was a Starfleet presence there already before Sisko arrived: the E-D folks were patching up the worst of the damage, and even they were not credited as having been the very first.

What happened immediately after the Cardassian exodus is also unclear. It apparently really happened overnight, without much warning, and the Cardassians who did the leaving were probably divided between those swearing never to return, those who were sure they were going to return in, oh, about six days, eight at most, and then Bajor would have hell to pay - and those very few who saw the whole picture, knew that Cardassian internal politics would prevent a return, and foresaw UFP meddling and the opportunities inherent in Cardassia maintaining a more clandestine or indirect presence.

Garak would probably be quick to recover and take his place in the latter lot...

Timo Saloniemi

But it still doesn't answer why the Bajorians themselves would have allowed Garak to stay on the station given their strong negative feelings (at that time) towards Cardassians, and especially in light of the death and carnage that the Cardassians inflicted on the station during their departure. Does Bajor have some type of "squatter right's" that applies to ALL humanoids that would allow anyone, even an alien member of an opposing occupational force, to take some type of proprietary "ownership" of a shop that is governed under a Bajoran sovereignty? As I speculated before, is it possible that Garak bribed/blackmailed an influential Bajoran official in order to be given permission to stay?

poloronbeam March 20 2014 03:27 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

doctorfoto wrote: (Post 9380773)
Quote:

Let me tell you a story. I once knew a Cardassian, a dashing, handsome young man with a promising career. And then one day, through no fault of his own, he found himself exiled and alone, with nowhere to turn. But did he give up? No. Instead he struck upon a brilliant plan. Rather than fleeing for the rest of his life, he sought shelter in the one place no one expected him to go. In a stronghold of his people's most hated enemies. There, surrounded by hostile strangers, he built a life. And there, against all odds, against the merciless logic of the Universe itself, he thrived.
This quote from Garak to Ziyal in A Call to Arms to me implies that although Garak's exile from Cardassia wasn't his choice, it was actually his idea to live among the Bajorans, even if it wasn't ideal. I would guess that Garak requested and was granted asylum from the Bajoran government as he "sought shelter" among them.


But who granted him that shelter, and why wasn't it revoked by the Bajoran Government after the Cardassians left, especially given Bajor's distrust (at that time) of Cardassians?

Vandervecken March 20 2014 03:30 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

od0_ital wrote: (Post 9380680)
Because to target him specifically and say that a law-abidin' (as far as they knew) private citizen couldn't open and run a business on their Federation-administrated space station would send the wrong message to the Federation about their policies of diversity and equality & stuff.

This explanation works for me. The Bajorans made him hands-off to look good to the Feds.

Bad Thoughts March 20 2014 03:38 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

doctorfoto wrote: (Post 9380773)
Quote:

Let me tell you a story. I once knew a Cardassian, a dashing, handsome young man with a promising career. And then one day, through no fault of his own, he found himself exiled and alone, with nowhere to turn. But did he give up? No. Instead he struck upon a brilliant plan. Rather than fleeing for the rest of his life, he sought shelter in the one place no one expected him to go. In a stronghold of his people's most hated enemies. There, surrounded by hostile strangers, he built a life. And there, against all odds, against the merciless logic of the Universe itself, he thrived.
This quote from Garak to Ziyal in A Call to Arms to me implies that although Garak's exile from Cardassia wasn't his choice, it was actually his idea to live among the Bajorans, even if it wasn't ideal. I would guess that Garak requested and was granted asylum from the Bajoran government as he "sought shelter" among them.

Literal truth in what Garak says? :guffaw:

DonIago March 20 2014 04:08 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
IIRC in the Terok Nor novels it's Dukat's superior (aka the Legate who rescinds Dukat's access codes in "Civil Defense") who sends Garak to Terok Nor to rankle Dukat, though it's at the instruction of Enabran Tain. When the withdrawal comes up Dukat takes some pleasure in leaving Garak behind.

doctorfoto March 21 2014 09:39 AM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Quote:

This quote from Garak to Ziyal in A Call to Arms to me implies that although Garak's exile from Cardassia wasn't his choice, it was actually his idea to live among the Bajorans, even if it wasn't ideal. I would guess that Garak requested and was granted asylum from the Bajoran government as he "sought shelter" among them.

Quote:

But who granted him that shelter, and why wasn't it revoked by the Bajoran Government after the Cardassians left, especially given Bajor's distrust (at that time) of Cardassians?
My apologies for not answering your original question completely. I'm afraid like most I can only offer my own speculation with a basis on what we saw on screen. My take on it is this:

We know the Cardassians left the station in pretty bad shape (Emissary) and that they also have a penchant for setting some pretty nasty booby traps behind (Civil Defense, Empok Nor), and we can assume that the Bajorans felt that the station was a pretty valuable asset worth keeping. So I see our ever-resourceful friend Garak approaching the Provisional Government (or whoever is in charge of restoring the station) with a proposal that he would help the Bajorans find and bypass all the various booby traps (especially the ones designed to kill non-Cardies), grant Cardassian computer access, and the like in exchange for asylum and accommodation on the station. Having a Cardassian that they can make use of "just in case" reduces any potential future problems (such as the issues in Civil Defense). So it was not an ideal arrangement for either party, but one that served both.

Or if you prefer your Garak to be a bit more sinister, with his background in the Obsidian Order and inside knowledge Garak was probably aware of many secret collaborators in the upper ranks of the government that the Bajorans themselves didn't know about and used that leverage to pull whatever strings he needed to secure his place on the station.

JirinPanthosa March 21 2014 06:42 PM

Re: Why was Garak allowed to stay on DS9 (Terok Nor)
 
Because the Bajorans never made any effort to police who gets to hang out in the civilian section of the station and who doesn't. Odo was the only one controlling the doorway, and he's fine with anyone who follows the rules.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.