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Tyberius March 10 2014 04:27 PM

Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
So, watching Warlord the other night and I'm wondering why there was not a female-to-female kiss. They had a potential three-way suggested, and an almost kiss, but no female-to-female kiss.

Was the kiss planned and rejected by someone? If so, who? Producers, actors, somebody else?

Christopher March 10 2014 05:48 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
If anyone balked, it was probably UPN. DS9 had previously had a really torrid and really controversial lesbian kiss in "Rejoined," but it was syndicated and thus not subject to as much censorship. And UPN had pretty much built its whole existence as a network around Voyager, so they were reluctant to take any real risks with it, which is why it so often tended to be a formulaic "TNG-lite" show rather than really taking advantage of its premise.

But that's just a semi-educated guess. We don't really know as much about the behind-the-scenes decisions on VGR and ENT as we do for the other series. The producers of those shows weren't as open about the process for some reason, and the Voyager Companion has virtually no discussion of the creative process or what went on behind the scenes.

Ho Ho Homeier March 10 2014 06:03 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
I side with Christopher on this. DS9 had done their big kiss episode the year before, and being syndicated they could get away with taking more risks than a network show.

One might just as easily start a thread discussion complaining that there weren't enough lesbian kisses between Seven and Janeway. :shifty:

Tyberius March 10 2014 07:39 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 9343003)
One might just as easily start a thread discussion complaining that there weren't enough lesbian kisses between Seven and Janeway. :shifty:

NTTAWWT, but in Warlord, there really should have been. Tieran and Nori where an item just hours or days before. Heck, the shot here should have culminated in a kiss, rather than the later one with Ameron.

Guy Gardener March 10 2014 08:23 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
You got it backwards.

Kes was a dude that week. Kissing his male finance, which UPN would have been too dull to censor would have been a big gay kiss and just as applaudable as what happened on DS9.

If he kissed that that girl, that would be tediously vanilla & straight. Meh.

On Xena, Bruce Campbell was being soul jockeyed by Xena's ghost when "they" kissed Gabrielle which was an end around on the censors who would not let that show be the screaming handbag full of rainbows it wanted to be.

teacake March 10 2014 09:49 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Need. More. Rainbows.

Tyberius March 10 2014 10:48 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Quote:

Guy Gardener wrote: (Post 9343474)
Kes was a dude that week. Kissing his male finance, which UPN would have been too dull to censor would have been a big gay kiss and just as applaudable as what happened on DS9.

Hmm, I just was thinking of it as a strategic kiss. Prison gay as opposed to gay gay.

So you're saying that Tieran was hot for Ameron and just then had the facility to do something about it?

ETA: He did possess Ameron right there at the end!

Guy Gardener March 10 2014 10:55 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
It took Zephram Chochrane 200 years to figure out that a noncoporal energy life form was systematically raping him.

If you really want to get your end away with someone or something of any gender, you always have the necessary equipment.

Tiberius March 11 2014 12:53 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 9342958)
The producers of those shows weren't as open about the process for some reason, and the Voyager Companion has virtually no discussion of the creative process or what went on behind the scenes.

That's why I didn't get the book. I loved the in depth breakdown of the creative process in the DS9 companion, and I found it very disappointing that the voyager one didn't.

teacake March 11 2014 10:56 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
That wasn't really Zephram. Another non corporeal life form had sucked up a bunch of Zephram years ago, found his looks wanting so redid him to look more mainstream and then carried on as Zephram for so long it forgot it used to be something else.

Guy Gardener March 11 2014 11:02 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Babe: Pig in the City, with all that pure Cromwell was probably like porn for you?

teacake March 11 2014 11:06 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Haven't seen it, really didn't like the first one. But I do adore that man.. I remember when he was on 6 Feet Under he had a fun Trek reference, right before his lunacy blossomed. I wish I could remember what it was, I know he was lying in bed talking to Ruth.

Guy Gardener March 11 2014 11:11 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Jim and Frank were in the second season of American Horror (Asylum) in passing.

He was a retired Nazi Scientist in hiding, and she was an arch angel from Heaven with a mission from God.

Shik March 11 2014 04:54 PM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Quote:

teacake wrote: (Post 9346243)
Haven't seen it, really didn't like the first one. But I do adore that man.. I remember when he was on 6 Feet Under he had a fun Trek reference, right before his lunacy blossomed. I wish I could remember what it was, I know he was lying in bed talking to Ruth.

Here's one for you...what if Zefram Cochrane is a descendant of Louis Skolnick's dad?

exodus March 12 2014 06:43 AM

Re: Warlord and the lesbian kiss
 
Quote:

Christopher wrote: (Post 9342958)
If anyone balked, it was probably UPN. DS9 had previously had a really torrid and really controversial lesbian kiss in "Rejoined," but it was syndicated and thus not subject to as much censorship. And UPN had pretty much built its whole existence as a network around Voyager, so they were reluctant to take any real risks with it, which is why it so often tended to be a formulaic "TNG-lite" show rather than really taking advantage of its premise.

But that's just a semi-educated guess. We don't really know as much about the behind-the-scenes decisions on VGR and ENT as we do for the other series. The producers of those shows weren't as open about the process for some reason, and the Voyager Companion has virtually no discussion of the creative process or what went on behind the scenes.

By this time two women kissing on TV wasn't a risk, seeing how shows like "L.A. Law", "Picket Fences" & "Rosanne" did it 3 or 4 years before DS9. UPN not wanting to take risks as a network is horseshit. Anybody remember "The Secret Diary Of Desmond Pfhiffer"? "Shasta McNasty"? "The Parkers"?
I think it was due to the script not calling for it because they wanted to relay the point that power was more an Afrodisiac than his girl was. Not having them kiss shows he was pulling away. DS9 did it to relay just the opposite.
I don't think it's any more complex than that.


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