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-   -   Picard/Crusher (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=236515)

Komack January 27 2014 03:01 AM

Picard/Crusher
 
Having spent the last summer watching TOS with my kids, in September we switched to TNG. Thanks for the wonder of Netflix, and the ability to sit on the couch and watch multiple episodes, we have just finished the seventh season. In general, we all found the budding Picard/Crusher romance to be an unbelievable plot twist - maybe, in large part, to what seemed to be the utter lack of chemistry between the two actors/characters. Is there a general consensus among the fans re the romance?

Bry_Sinclair January 27 2014 09:53 AM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
A consensus? Among Trek fans?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Dukhat January 27 2014 11:45 AM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
I didn't find it any more unbelievable than the Worf/Troi "romance" that came out of nowhere and went nowhere, or the 7-of-9/Chakotay "romance" that came out of nowhere and went nowhere, etc. That's apparently how love works in the 24th century.

MikeS January 27 2014 11:59 AM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

Komack wrote: (Post 9172576)
In general, we all found the budding Picard/Crusher romance to be an unbelievable plot twist - maybe, in large part, to what seemed to be the utter lack of chemistry between the two actors/characters. Is there a general consensus among the fans re the romance?

"Plot twist"? Are you serious? That romance was hinted at for six seasons. Off the top of my head I can think of The Naked Now, Arsenal of Freedom, Remember Me.

Quote:

Dukhat wrote: (Post 9173437)
I didn't find it any more unbelievable than the Worf/Troi "romance" that came out of nowhere and went nowhere, or the 7-of-9/Chakotay "romance" that came out of nowhere and went nowhere

Agreed.

King Daniel Into Darkness January 27 2014 12:17 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Are Picard and Crusher meant to be an item post-"Attached"? He completely ignores her in the TNG movies.

I actually think Picard and Beverly are a good fit - they're both dull as ditchwater!

Dukhat January 27 2014 12:24 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 9173512)
Are Picard and Crusher meant to be an item post-"Attached"? He completely ignores her in the TNG movies.

Picard was far too busy being an out-of-character action hero to be wasting his time with Crusher. Or Riker. Or Geordi. Or Troi. Or Worf. Or anyone else who did absolutely nothing in those stupid movies.

CorporalCaptain January 27 2014 01:42 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 9173464)
"Plot twist"? Are you serious? That romance was hinted at for six seasons. Off the top of my head I can think of The Naked Now, Arsenal of Freedom, Remember Me.

Make that all seven seasons, since they got married in the alternate future of All Good Things.... It could have spanned the whole series, if only it had been explicitly spelled out in the very first episode.

Sophronisba January 27 2014 02:00 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Trek often does not do romance well (although I do kind of like Torres & Paris together on Voyager). But Picard and Crusher had negative chemistry. The whole thing felt very forced.

2takesfrakes January 27 2014 02:03 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8400/8...376fe767_o.jpg

MikeS January 27 2014 03:11 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 9173656)
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 9173464)
"Plot twist"? Are you serious? That romance was hinted at for six seasons. Off the top of my head I can think of The Naked Now, Arsenal of Freedom, Remember Me.

Make that all seven seasons, since they got married in the alternate future of All Good Things.... It could have spanned the whole series, if only it had been explicitly spelled out in the very first episode.

I said six because she wasn't in season two. :bolian:

CorporalCaptain January 27 2014 03:20 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 9173800)
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 9173656)
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 9173464)
"Plot twist"? Are you serious? That romance was hinted at for six seasons. Off the top of my head I can think of The Naked Now, Arsenal of Freedom, Remember Me.

Make that all seven seasons, since they got married in the alternate future of All Good Things.... It could have spanned the whole series, if only it had been explicitly spelled out in the very first episode.

I said six because she wasn't in season two. :bolian:

Alright, but my point was that, if we're going to pick and choose sections of the series in which the idea was "in effect," then it's really an on-again/off-again romance that only shows up in specific episodes, and nowhere near the majority of the series (six or seven seasons). By the time of the second season, it had already been established as a latent issue between them, so that's why I counted the second season as covered in the period of time in which it had already been established.

The fact is, and the point here is, that a latent romance between them was established by episode #2, so in no way can it be called a "twist" when it shows up later. It showing up later only confirmed that it wasn't an idea that had been abandoned.

:techman:

MikeS January 27 2014 03:25 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
I am now wondering if it was actually reffered to in Season 2, though surreptitiously, in The Child?

CorporalCaptain January 27 2014 03:31 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

MikeS wrote: (Post 9173830)
I am now wondering if it was actually reffered to in Season 2, though surreptitiously, in The Child?

You mean:

Quote:

PICARD: Mixed feelings for all of us. It's always difficult leaving any ship, just as it was for your mother
Yep, that's indicating intimate knowledge of her feelings, isn't it. Ultimately inconclusive, but still, good catch.

dub January 27 2014 04:27 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
I got the sense early on that they had a fling (or an almost-fling) in the past. Then for the rest of the series, there was sexual tension from time to time between the two of them (at least that was the vibe I was getting). So it was no surprise to me when they actually got together.

Whoa Nellie January 27 2014 04:54 PM

Re: Picard/Crusher
 
Quote:

dub wrote: (Post 9173998)
So it was no surprise to me when they actually got together.

In canon, Picard and Crusher never actually do get together, except in the alternate timeline (which doesn't end up happening) of "All Good Things" where they end up divorced.

I love both the Picard and Crusher characters. The two of them have a nice chemistry on screen that comes across as a very warm, comfortable friendship. Romantically, not so much. Their interactions in 'The Naked Now" came across as embarrassingly silly and sophomoric. Of course, it was supposed to be silly and sophomoric since they were both stoned off their *sses. In my opinion as a romantic pairing they really don't bring anything special out in each other. To quote Q, "This human emotion, love, it's a dangerous thing, Picard and obviously you're ill-equipped to handle it. She's found a vulnerability in you, a vulnerability I've been looking for for years." You don't see that vulnerability in Picard in regards to Crusher. Picard treats Cruser no differently than he would treat any of his other officers.

"Captain's Holiday" shows a relaxed, off-duty Jean-Luc Picard flirting and making love to Vash (to the point allowed by network sensors anyway). They have amazing sexual chemistry and sparks fly when they bicker with each other, culminating in the way he bellows at her about the dangers involved in going to Sarthong V. In "Qpid" we see how Picard is prone to taking extreme actions concerning Vash, storming a castle single handily and running Sir Guy through with a broad sword while the two men duel over her. This was Q's point to Picard in "Qpid" when he says, "Sadly, they're all fine... but the point is they could have been killed, and you might have been too... all for the Love Of A Maid."

In "Lessons" we see Picard flirting and making love to Nella Darren (again to the point allowed by network sensors). The chemistry isn't as fiery as it is with Vash, the interplay is a bit more subdued but he is obviously smitten. However the sorrow is palpable as Picard shuts down when it is believed she is dead on the planet. When she returns, Picard tells her in a quiet impassioned voice, "I've lost people under my command, people who were very dear to me. But never someone I've been in love with." He goes on to say, "I knew I could never again put your life in jeopardy."

In canon, we simply do not see the same kind of vulnerability in Picard's relationship with Crusher.

Of all the people on the Enterprise (series regulars) I think Picard's relationship with Guinan is the most intense. He is shown to take her word on anything, over everything. He removes the "command mask" more with her than anyone else onboard. Picard's most tender moment in my opinion is in "Time's Arrow" part 2, when he stays behind to make sure an injured Guinan is all right. He cradles her in his lap and strokes her cheek and tells her "I didn't want anything to happen to you. You're far too important to me." When she asks if they become friends, he replies, "It goes far beyond friendship."



Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie


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