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Pippin209 January 20 2014 01:10 AM

Best AI in Star Trek
 
Ive been wondering for a while what is the better example of AI?
its been a subject close to my heart for a while (loved all of Asimov's work) and have always loved Data and the Doctor.
But here is my quandary they are both artificial lifeforms with independent taught and 'feelings'. They are both given free reign to expand there conciousness and develop as a independent life form but witch one is truly an artificial 'LIFE?'

Unicron January 20 2014 03:18 AM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
I think there's an interesting difference between the EMH and Data, in that the latter was designed and intended by Soong to become self-aware independent, whereas the EMH gained some of those qualities somewhat unintentionally through the Caretaker's actions in stranding Voyager. I think that he earned the same rights as a distinct individual that Data has, but it's harder to judge for me whether this would favor the argument that other holograms are potentially life forms on the same level. It would depend on a number of things.

bbjeg January 20 2014 06:46 AM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
I'd put the Doctor on the same level as Data after he got the mobile emitter. Apart from Data's physical advantages, they operate on the same level (well, Data is fully functional so he's got that going for him too).

I'd rank the Borg over both of them though. They're a hive mind with the combined knowledge of thousands (if not millions) of civilizations.

Maurice January 20 2014 08:01 AM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
But isn't the intelligence in a hologram just a sophisticated program running in the ships computer?

bbjeg January 20 2014 03:16 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
^That's why I ranked him to Data after the mobile emitter was introduced.

Albertese January 20 2014 04:29 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
I've always assumed that the EMH's intelligence was a byproduct of developing the programming originally written by the Bynars to distract Riker in "11001001." I posit that their work, though temporary in the case of the Minuet program, left artifacts that were studied by holo-engineers and incorporated into the EMH to make a more effective and creatively-thinking doctor, not realizing that if you leave it running for a few years straight, it take's on a mind of it's own.

YMMV.

--Alex

Pippin209 January 20 2014 05:54 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
Quote:

bbjeg wrote: (Post 9144388)
I'd put the Doctor on the same level as Data after he got the mobile emitter. Apart from Data's physical advantages, they operate on the same level (well, Data is fully functional so he's got that going for him too).

I'd rank the Borg over both of them though. They're a hive mind with the combined knowledge of thousands (if not millions) of civilizations.

The borg however are not AI they are cyborgs a combination of organic and machine. They already had life before the borg they (for lack of better terminology) re-write the organic components to accept borg implants and data from the hive mind. They are not AI in any sense of the term as the hive mind is just one Queen controlling the information of trillions of minds directing the flow as required like an almighty ISP.

Pippin209 January 20 2014 05:59 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
Quote:

Maurice wrote: (Post 9144508)
But isn't the intelligence in a hologram just a sophisticated program running in the ships computer?

Same for data his program is just held in his posatronic brain not the ships computer systems.

also the doctor has gained emotion on his own without the need of the emotion chip data requires to feel 'human emotions'

Pippin209 January 20 2014 06:14 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
Quote:

Unicron wrote: (Post 9143809)
I think there's an interesting difference between the EMH and Data, in that the latter was designed and intended by Soong to become self-aware independent, whereas the EMH gained some of those qualities somewhat unintentionally through the Caretaker's actions in stranding Voyager. I think that he earned the same rights as a distinct individual that Data has, but it's harder to judge for me whether this would favor the argument that other holograms are potentially life forms on the same level. It would depend on a number of things.

i guess it depends on the complexity of the holograms programming. i.e. Michael Sullivan in VOY ep Fairhaven. he gains true to life emotions for Janeway (climbing a tree and professing his live for her) because Janeway gave him greater 'inelegance' as well as I guess a rudimentary understanding of love through poetry but again is this to do with been left running for a longer period of time as Albertese has mentioned. But however other less sophisticated programs (Chaotica for example) are relatively stupid but is this an intentional programming feature to allow the player to defeat them?

(Sorry for the spamming new to the message board thing:confused:

JarodRussell January 20 2014 06:27 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
The EMH is just horribly written. No way you would want an emergency doctor with ego, attitude, bad bed side manner and sometimes even argueing about direct orders. The EMH also appeared to be more sophisticated than Data ever was. Emotions to begin with, no problem with contractions, no problem with humor, etc...

CorporalCaptain January 20 2014 08:24 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
Moriarty was a conscious program that, in the end, ran disembodied on a portable device, with Regina.

Pippin209 January 20 2014 11:22 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
I don't think that Moriarty was a fully concious AI. But in watching the episode it has made me me re-evaluate my previous statement about Michael Sullivan (VOY ep Fairhaven) as they where both just for filling there programming parameters Michael Sullivan being a perfect man for Janeway and Moriarty to be an intelligent foe for Data. both giving a good account of what the halo called a bumb AI (not fully concious but is capable of mimicking inelegance.
guys ur all awesome keep this going plz the gray matter is on overdrive!

Mark_Nguyen January 20 2014 11:59 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
You can add Leonardo da Gimli to the list as well. He SEEMED conscious, but was merely operating within the parameters of his program as was explicitly stated. For the most part, the Doctor was meant to be the same thing, but operating for years outside of those parameters allowed a true form of sentience to evolve IMO. One would only wonder what would have happened had Soong gotten ahold of the Bynar's technology to simulate sentience (assuming that's what it was - granted, there's 20+ years between these efforts anyway, show time). While fundamentally separate approaches, I think they got the same results.

Mark

Unicron January 21 2014 02:35 AM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
Leonardo da Gimli. :lol:

RAMA January 30 2014 05:35 PM

Re: Best AI in Star Trek
 
I enjoy Data of course, but I kind of like the juxtaposition V'Ger from STMMP is to the original TOS, instead of trying to kill the AI, they try and learn and understand it, despite the apparent threat it was. In essence, it's more "ST" than TOS!

RAMA


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