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PicardSpeedo December 24 2013 05:53 AM

Warp 10
 
Ok, so we all know that going Warp 10 makes you be everywhere in the universe at the exact same time, and, more importantly, it turns you into an oversized lizard who gets Captain Janeway pregnant, but how does Warp 10 differ from transwarp? What allows transwarp to get around the infinity-occupying, lizard-transmuting problems posed by Warp 10?

And now that I think about it, how did Tom Paris manage not to destroy the universe by occupying every point in it simultaneously?

Push The Button December 24 2013 06:16 AM

Re: Warp 10
 
Treknobabble. And Voyager was probably the worst offender of them all.

Captain Rob December 24 2013 09:53 AM

Re: Warp 10
 
Doesn't count. Didn't happen. They edited out the end bit at the very end where Tom says "Computer. End program." And the holodeck doors open. And he deletes his lizard sex fantasy after realizing that he went too far.

think December 24 2013 11:25 AM

Re: Warp 10
 
ahhh the wonders of lizards having sex, hehe

I used to have a lizard as a spirit guide in my dreams.. got awful hungry in a dream and ate my spirit guide,, is that ok or should I of not killed the grim reaper in a different dream first before I killed my spirit guide.?

King Daniel Into Darkness December 24 2013 12:24 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

PicardSpeedo wrote: (Post 9046774)
Ok, so we all know that going Warp 10 makes you be everywhere in the universe at the exact same time, and, more importantly, it turns you into an oversized lizard who gets Captain Janeway pregnant, but how does Warp 10 differ from transwarp? What allows transwarp to get around the infinity-occupying, lizard-transmuting problems posed by Warp 10?

And now that I think about it, how did Tom Paris manage not to destroy the universe by occupying every point in it simultaneously?

Warp 10 is infinite speed in Voyager and the non-canon Okuda technical manuals. In the rest of the franchise it's a different story. TOS and TAS passed warp 10 all the time without salamander transformations or infinity speed, and TNG did it in "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "All Good Things"

Voyager also massively slowed warp speed down, making crossing the galaxy a lifelong journey despite TOS, TAS and the classic movies zipping to the rim of the galaxy, back to Earth and to the centre effortlessly.

Just chalk it up to one of those weird unexplained and best-left-unsolved discontinuities, like "The Alternative Factor" where one drop of antimatter could destroy the whole universe, when in every other episode it's common starship fuel.:shrug:

bbailey861 December 24 2013 01:37 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

Captain Rob wrote: (Post 9047368)
Doesn't count. Didn't happen. They edited out the end bit at the very end where Tom says "Computer. End program." And the holodeck doors open. And he deletes his lizard sex fantasy after realizing that he went too far.

I really like this explanation.

TheSubCommander December 24 2013 01:50 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 9047560)
Quote:

PicardSpeedo wrote: (Post 9046774)
Ok, so we all know that going Warp 10 makes you be everywhere in the universe at the exact same time, and, more importantly, it turns you into an oversized lizard who gets Captain Janeway pregnant, but how does Warp 10 differ from transwarp? What allows transwarp to get around the infinity-occupying, lizard-transmuting problems posed by Warp 10?

And now that I think about it, how did Tom Paris manage not to destroy the universe by occupying every point in it simultaneously?

Warp 10 is infinite speed in Voyager and the non-canon Okuda technical manuals. In the rest of the franchise it's a different story. TOS and TAS passed warp 10 all the time without salamander transformations or infinity speed, and TNG did it in "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "All Good Things"

Voyager also massively slowed warp speed down, making crossing the galaxy a lifelong journey despite TOS, TAS and the classic movies zipping to the rim of the galaxy, back to Earth and to the centre effortlessly.

Just chalk it up to one of those weird unexplained and best-left-unsolved discontinuities, like "The Alternative Factor" where one drop of antimatter could destroy the whole universe, when in every other episode it's common starship fuel.:shrug:

I read once, I think in the Okuda Encyclopedia, that the scales for Warp are different in the 23rd and 24th centuries. If I am not mistaken, with the advent of the Excelsior's Transwarp drive, the warp drive scales were recalibrated. So, Warp 9 in TOS, is something like the equivalent of Warp 7 in the TNG era, and once you get into Wap 9 in the TNG era, every .01 is like another Warp factor in the TOS era. Or something to that effect. I don't remember the exact scale. This is supposedly the explanation as to why in TOS episodes like The Changeling, where the Enterprise goes as fast as Warp 15 and think there may have even been a TAS episode (Counterclock Incident? I think?) where the Enterprise exceeds Warp 20.

But yeah, it still doesn't explain how the Enterprise can travel to the great barrier to see "God" in Trek V in mere days, when it takes Voyager years to travel the same distance. Unless there are time distortions along the way, in some parts of space in the DQ, that the AQ doesn't have??? Or why in AGT, the Enterprise-D can go Warp 13, and yet Voyager sets the thresh hold at Warp 10.

King Daniel Into Darkness December 24 2013 01:57 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
I read that too - but it doesn't explain warp 10 being passed in TNG (supposedly after this change) and it was never ever even hinted at in the shows themselves. Plus as I said, warp speed was shown to be a lot faster pre-Voyager so it makes even less sense.

C.E. Evans December 24 2013 02:14 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
The only consistency about warp speed is its inconsistency--which could be explained if warp factors vary depending on local subspace conditions (Warp 4 here could be faster than Warp 9 there). And some ships may be able to traverse vast distances of the Galaxy very quickly if they know the location of "warp highways" (or subspace shortcuts). A Federation starship stuck in an unfamiliar part of the Galaxy may not, IMO.

TheSubCommander December 24 2013 02:14 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Yeah, I agree, Warp is inconsistent so i tend to ignore Warp numbers once it gets beyond Warp 9. And STID doesn't help matters, either, especially traveling to Qu'o'nos in minutes and its interplanetary beaming.

KDID,A possible explanation could be is the Warp scale was recalculated yet again, sometime between TNG's Where No One has Gone Before when the Traveller hurled the Enterprise D into another galaxy, and VOY's the Caretaker. That's all I can come up with, anyway.

Real world explanation, however, is probably just Voyager writers not paying attention to previously established canon in previous shows.

PicardSpeedo December 24 2013 02:43 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

TheSubCommander wrote: (Post 9047632)
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 9047560)
Quote:

PicardSpeedo wrote: (Post 9046774)
Ok, so we all know that going Warp 10 makes you be everywhere in the universe at the exact same time, and, more importantly, it turns you into an oversized lizard who gets Captain Janeway pregnant, but how does Warp 10 differ from transwarp? What allows transwarp to get around the infinity-occupying, lizard-transmuting problems posed by Warp 10?

And now that I think about it, how did Tom Paris manage not to destroy the universe by occupying every point in it simultaneously?

Warp 10 is infinite speed in Voyager and the non-canon Okuda technical manuals. In the rest of the franchise it's a different story. TOS and TAS passed warp 10 all the time without salamander transformations or infinity speed, and TNG did it in "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "All Good Things"

Voyager also massively slowed warp speed down, making crossing the galaxy a lifelong journey despite TOS, TAS and the classic movies zipping to the rim of the galaxy, back to Earth and to the centre effortlessly.

Just chalk it up to one of those weird unexplained and best-left-unsolved discontinuities, like "The Alternative Factor" where one drop of antimatter could destroy the whole universe, when in every other episode it's common starship fuel.:shrug:

I read once, I think in the Okuda Encyclopedia, that the scales for Warp are different in the 23rd and 24th centuries. If I am not mistaken, with the advent of the Excelsior's Transwarp drive, the warp drive scales were recalibrated. So, Warp 9 in TOS, is something like the equivalent of Warp 7 in the TNG era, and once you get into Wap 9 in the TNG era, every .01 is like another Warp factor in the TOS era. Or something to that effect. I don't remember the exact scale. This is supposedly the explanation as to why in TOS episodes like The Changeling, where the Enterprise goes as fast as Warp 15 and think there may have even been a TAS episode (Counterclock Incident? I think?) where the Enterprise exceeds Warp 20.

But yeah, it still doesn't explain how the Enterprise can travel to the great barrier to see "God" in Trek V in mere days, when it takes Voyager years to travel the same distance. Unless there are time distortions along the way, in some parts of space in the DQ, that the AQ doesn't have??? Or why in AGT, the Enterprise-D can go Warp 13, and yet Voyager sets the thresh hold at Warp 10.

Actually, going by canon, in AGT, the entire crews of both the future Enterprise and the Pasteur would have devolved into libido-driven salamanders and ran off to the Lizard Planet as a result of their exposure to Warp 10+...if the anti-time anomaly hadn't gotten them first.

Hando December 24 2013 02:47 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
First to Threshold:
They have not reached Warp 10, this was just a rounding error. Paris' visions of planets were hallucinations, there were caused, along with that devolution by a energy field generated by the new form of dilithium.

That Warp 10 puts you everywhere is a myth. It is not supported by any hard facts.

Just think, they went "Warp 10" twice, so the probability that the shuttle would show up near its starting point are abysmally low.


To Warp 13, or Warp 15:
It can just mean that 0-10 is the standard TNG warp scale and >10 are transwarp/quantum slipstream velocities.

Warp 11 is Transwarp 1, Warp 12 is Transwarp 2...

T'Girl December 24 2013 03:01 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: (Post 9047635)
I read that too - but it doesn't explain warp 10 being passed in TNG (supposedly after this change) and it was never ever even hinted at in the shows themselves. Plus as I said, warp speed was shown to be a lot faster pre-Voyager so it makes even less sense.

Bit of conjecture.

In Peak Performance, LaForge make reference to the Hathaway having "old Avidyne engines, so all Starfleet vessels do not have the same engines over time." If in-universe they created a new warp scale for the hypothetical "transwarp drive" engines of the Exselcier, this scale being different than of the previous type of engine, then maybe each type and style of warp engine basically has it own unique warp scale?

The Voyager has a type of warp engine that is never seen on any other Starfleet vessel, they are somewhat small for the vessel's size and they require being moved upwards in order to operate. I can't recall any other ship's engines having to move for the ship to go to warp (except Cochrane's).

If this engine (all warp engines) has it's own "personal" warp scale, this could explain Voyagers seeming speed difference at a given warp number in comparison to other ships we've seen.

What do you think?

bbjeg December 24 2013 03:18 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
I always thought of transwarp like warp, but using transporting technology to place the ship further than it should be than using standard warp without going warp ten.

King Daniel Into Darkness December 24 2013 04:58 PM

Re: Warp 10
 
Quote:

C.E. Evans wrote: (Post 9047659)
The only consistency about warp speed is its inconsistency--which could be explained if warp factors vary depending on local subspace conditions (Warp 4 here could be faster than Warp 9 there). And some ships may be able to traverse vast distances of the Galaxy very quickly if they know the location of "warp highways" (or subspace shortcuts). A Federation starship stuck in an unfamiliar part of the Galaxy may not, IMO.

This sounds okayish, but I find it hard to believe it could possibly account for the sheer difference in speeds we've seen.

TOS - 1000 LY in 12hrs at warp 8.7 ("That Which Survives")
VOY - 70,000 LY in 75 years at warp 9.975 ("Caretaker")

That's the old Enterprise making Voyager's journey in a month, or Voyager taking a year to cover the 1000 LY distance in TOS.

Mileage may vary, but I see most of Trek fitting nicely into the TOS/TAS/movie framework of much faster warp speeds (with examples like the E-E getting from the RNZ to Earth in FC, the NX-01 taking four days to reach Kronos at warp 5 and nuKirk making it there and back in a day at warp 8) than it does the Voyager mould.
Quote:

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote:
If this engine (all warp engines) has it's own " personal " warp scale, this could explain Voyagers seeming speed difference at a given warp number in comparison to other ships we've seen.

What do you think?

Maybe if they just left it at "maximum warp" for all Treks (I wish they'd done that!), instead of getting into specific nob-comparison numbers like "warp 9.975" and "fastest ship in the fleet" -type comments.


Ideally, I'd just say Voyager was it's own little universe that operated under a different set of rules to the rest of the Trekverse, but that screws up the many crossovers with other shows and the idea of Trek as one epic saga. By Voyager's way of thinking, TOS and the rest can't possibly have happened as we saw. Hurmph.


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