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Komack December 21 2013 05:36 PM

The Pegasus
 
Just watched "the Pegasus" (spelling?) for the first time in 20 years. I was bothered by Picard's decision to inform the Romulans of the cloaking technology - is it really the place of a Starship Captain to decide whether or not his superiors have made a sound/moral/correct decision in violating a treaty and developing a new technology?

Finngle Bells December 21 2013 05:40 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
^That way, the Romulans couldn't have said Picard was a deceptive starship commander who sneaked past them.

As for his superiors- It was ILLEGAL. Picard did his duty, even if an admiral was telling him to keep it a secret. It wasn't up to interpretion. The law clearly forbade Federation Starships from using cloaking devices, from what we all heard on-screen. That's why Riker did the TATV crap, because it could have meant his career.

The Old Building & Loan December 21 2013 06:08 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
I haven't seen the episode in ages, but I have to agree with Komack. It may have been illegal, but that's something that should have been sorted out internally. Unless it was to defuse an escalating situation (which may have been the case, I don't remember), then Picard shouldn't have taken it upon himself to expose matters of Federation/Starfleet policy/security to a rival power.

DonIago December 21 2013 06:15 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
I suppose it's possible that the treaty stipulated that such potential situations must be reported immediately by the commanding officer(s) present on the scene.

Finngle Bells December 21 2013 06:26 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Actually, the thoughts the OP had did occur me to when I first saw when it first aired about 20 years ago.

Then I started to wonder how Starfleet would be able to explain how the Enterprise managed to turn up elsewhere after being sealed inside asteroid. The Romulans would have been able to determine that all of the data and all that the warbird recorded were real and accurate.

They might hide it by censuring that Rommie commander and his bridge staff, but the military would still be suspicious of how the Enteprise got out of the asteroid.

PaleMoonlight December 21 2013 06:40 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Pressman etc were still doing something to mess with the treaty that allows peace between the Fed and Romulus, so Picard was acting in the best interests of the Federation's security. Didn't someone in this episode say the head of Starfleet Security or someone else really high up was in on it too? Interesting to see TNG kind of planting the seeds for the corrupt higher echelons of the Federation that DS9 would go into more detail on. Pressman's line about having "powerful friends" and Picard's reply of "you're going to need them" is a great moment, he shows integrity in the face of corruption. What a guy!

LMFAOschwarz December 21 2013 07:13 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Quote:

PaleMoonlight wrote: (Post 9038791)
Interesting to see TNG kind of planting the seeds for the corrupt higher echelons of the Federation that DS9 would go into more detail on.

That's an interesting observation. I always felt that way about the episode Allegiance, where Picard tells that Bolian Ensign that the plague on Cor Caroli 5 was classified a 'secret'. A "plague" is a "secret"?! Just what was that really all about? :eek:

jimbotron December 21 2013 07:19 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Quote:

Finngle Bells wrote: (Post 9038689)
That's why Riker did the TATV crap, because it could have meant his career.

Nope, it never happened. :techman:

JirinPanthosa December 21 2013 11:21 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Contrary to what the current press will tell you, it is not the duty of people to cover up their bosses' illegal and immoral activities, even if they do it in the name of security.

Robert Comsol December 21 2013 11:48 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Quote:

jimbotron wrote: (Post 9038884)
Quote:

Finngle Bells wrote: (Post 9038689)
That's why Riker did the TATV crap, because it could have meant his career.

Nope, it never happened. :techman:

I concur. Here's the actual dialogue from TATV:

RIKER: I think I'm ready to talk to Captain Picard. I should have done it a long time ago. (hear, hear - go for it Will!)

And here is the only relevant "The Pegasus" scene where he had a chance to talk:

RIKER: I've said all I can. I am under direct orders from Admiral Pressman not to discuss this, sir.

(So essentially he's ready to talk, but won't because he is under orders not to do so...:rofl:)

So when was he ready to talk to Picard according to TATV?!?

DATA: The asteroid's internal structure is highly unstable. Any attempt to cut through the rock could cause the entire chasm to collapse.
RIKER: Captain, I have a suggestion. There's a piece of equipment in Admiral Pressman's quarters under guard which might get us out of here. It's a prototype for a Federation cloaking device.

Oops...no, that was not the talk he promised in TATV, either. :lol: Sorry, can't stand retroactive continuity because of things like this.

Bob

USS Excelsior December 29 2013 11:59 PM

Re: The Pegasus
 
It would have come in handy that cloak, you could be fired upon and then it would pass through the ship. And maybe even fire back, and since the weapons leave the ship they become unphased and hit the target.

DonIago December 30 2013 01:27 AM

Re: The Pegasus
 
If you don't mind starting a war, sure.

Ar-Pharazon December 30 2013 01:49 AM

Re: The Pegasus
 
^ They could have just used the phasing part of the tech and left the cloak out (if possible).

A ship could still hide inside an asteroid.

And I think Picard telling the Romulans about it wasn't really his call. He should have let Starfleet do that through diplomatic channels.

DonIago December 30 2013 03:42 AM

Re: The Pegasus
 
And I think it's possible the treaty stipulated that Picard was obligated to let them know about it at his earliest opportunity, but there's no way to know for sure since we're not privy to the text of the treaty.

Mojochi December 30 2013 07:54 AM

Re: The Pegasus
 
Quote:

Finngle Bells wrote: (Post 9038758)
Actually, the thoughts the OP had did occur me to when I first saw when it first aired about 20 years ago.

Then I started to wonder how Starfleet would be able to explain how the Enterprise managed to turn up elsewhere after being sealed inside asteroid. The Romulans would have been able to determine that all of the data and all that the warbird recorded were real and accurate.

They might hide it by censuring that Rommie commander and his bridge staff, but the military would still be suspicious of how the Enteprise got out of the asteroid.

^That's certainly a solid consideration. The presence of the Ent-D somewhere else afterward would have been a dead giveaway that they'd used some means to get out of the asteroid, & assuming that the Romulans were in the vicinity based on some intelligence about the Pegasus, it wouldn't take much to put it all together.

If Picard hadn't come forward when he did, he might have risked a cover-up that could have involved mothballing the ENT-D & disbanding her crew or even putting them in hiding, to maintain the ruse that the ship had never gotten out

But make no bones about it. Picard is a total whistleblower, and in some circles could be called treasonous, for endangering the Federation by publicly outing their misconduct to a potential enemy

Having said that, I think he did the right thing. By not doing it, there is a risk of Starfleet becoming overtly corrupt, & Picard is consistently willing to make hard calls to safeguard it as it is meant to be. Picard is a man who takes personal responsibility for making & keeping Starfleet the way it's supposed to be. Even though he has people he's subordinate to, he sees that as a captain's duty

Does that make him an arrogant, self-aggrandizing boyscout? Maybe. Choosing to not develop a technology that a potential enemy has been using against you is a bold & precarious principle to uphold, but clearly their leaders felt it was the lynchpin that stems the full on war between their two worlds, or perhaps kills the spirit of their purpose... To them, a cloaked Federation is not the true Federation. It's a federation consumed with fear of Romulans & Klingons & whoever else, and any hint of that ought to be ousted, like Picard did. That's how I took it anyway


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