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-   -   LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=231064)

sovereign November 18 2013 11:39 AM

LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
I'm not going to write a novel here. The last two films, while financially successful, have been popcorn flicks for the masses. I'm not saying that Insurrection and Nemesis were perfect by any means. Give me a break though. If they would have made money, we would have had a little sci fi wet dream. There is no perfect Trek film. However, I see more "Star Trek" in these flawed films as opposed to anything that came after. Come on guys. Star Trek didn't make an impact in society because of what we have seen in the last two films. Wake up.

CommishSleer November 18 2013 12:35 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Would you prefer me to say that INS and NEM were the epitome of TNG?

I defend the right to criticise all Star Trek films equally (including NEM and INS and ST09 and STID).
And I do.
But its out of love.
Well mostly. ;) :lol:

BillJ November 18 2013 12:42 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Nemesis was okay, Insurrection was flat awful for reasons I've went over in other threads through the years.

2takesfrakes November 18 2013 12:47 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Bitching about movies does not get Studio's attention. Not going to see movies does. Thinning out their pocketbook is how to let them know of your displeasure, under no uncertain terms. And with NEMESIS, boy, did fans ever get Paramount's attention! No turning around and heading right back in to see NEMESIS again ... word of mouth got around and so Paramount was made to rethink STAR TREK movies. And you know what? Am I ever glad they did! The result has been fantastic!

It's cool to be a STAR TREK fan, for the first time in decades and the fun has returned, in spades! And Paramount's bean counters couldn't be happier ... nor could I! This is how The Original Series was meant to be! How it should've been, all along. But no matter ... and as for INSURRECTION, I am definitely a fan of this movie! I love how people complain about Picard's Piece of Crumpet in this one, I thought she was quite charming and one of the many pleasures this movie offers.

JarodRussell November 18 2013 01:05 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Insurrection is a fine film. The best thing about it is the moral decision Picard makes in a situation that is not just black and white. Those who do not have the same opinion hate the film, those who agree with Picard are okay with the film.

Nemesis is just like the Abramstrek movies, with lower budget and poorer execution. I never liked it.

BillJ November 18 2013 01:56 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Quote:

JarodRussell wrote: (Post 8905582)
Insurrection is a fine film. The best thing about it is the moral decision Picard makes. Those who do not have the same opinion hate the film, those who agree with Picard are okay with the film.

I disagree with Picard's decision but there's much more wrong with the film. The S'ona are the most tepid bad guys in the history of Trek and that's saying something, the humor didn't work, the S'ona/Ba'ku backstory didn't make much sense, "Action-Picard" rears his bald ugly head again and Picard's actions seem more driven by trying to get up Anij's skirt than trying to save the Ba'ku.

For me, the film was a let down on almost every level.

Lance November 18 2013 03:57 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
I think people should be free to criticize (and indeed, praise) movies and television as they see fit. The first indication of a truly open mind is a person's ability to analyze something that they love in a critical way, to see beyond their love for a product and instead talk about it's flaws. This is a very healthy thing. In my opinion. ;)

I'm not sure that 'love' isn't too strong a word for my feelings about Insurrection. :D But I do love TNG as a whole, and both Insurrection and Nemesis were below par adventures for the TNG crew. I'd stick a knife in 'em as quickly as I would, say, season one's "Code Of Honor".

Use of Time November 18 2013 04:03 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
I just couldn't be made to give a shit about what happened to the Ba'ku. This story could have been a 45 minute episode buried somewhere in season 4 of TNG and you would have never thought it an epic plot worthy of a movie. In a movie I want to see a plot that changes the landscape of the Star Trek universe as we know it. Insurrection was an episode in a bottle that somehow ended up on the big screen.

Lance November 18 2013 04:11 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Quote:

Use Of Time wrote:
Insurrection was an episode in a bottle that somehow ended up on the big screen.

Interesting you should say this. :)

The most ironic thing about Insurrection is that it actually had a bigger budget than First Contact (hence all of that location filming in the countryside rather than being cooped up on sound stages). And yet Insurrection STILL feels more like a bottle episode to me than does the mostly shipbound FC. :facepalm:

Insurrection should feel epic. It doesn't. Even all these years later I still can't quite put my finger on exactly why, though. It's just my gut feeling, "It feels wrong". :confused: :p

CorporalCaptain November 18 2013 04:12 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Insurrection was 24th century Prime Universe spiraling out of control, and Nemesis was it smashing into the ground.

The reality in which a continuation of that could have been profitable does not in any way coincide with our own.

Furthermore, say we had gotten more of the same. Then, wet dream wouldn't have been apt. If we must use a penis metaphor, then erectile dysfunction would probably better describe it.

No thanks. No way, Jose. :thumbdown:

Quote:

sovereign wrote: (Post 8905453)
If they would have made money, we would have had a little sci fi wet dream.


MacLeod November 18 2013 04:42 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Quote:

sovereign wrote: (Post 8905453)
I'm not going to write a novel here. The last two films, while financially successful, have been popcorn flicks for the masses. I'm not saying that Insurrection and Nemesis were perfect by any means. Give me a break though. If they would have made money, we would have had a little sci fi wet dream. There is no perfect Trek film. However, I see more "Star Trek" in these flawed films as opposed to anything that came after. Come on guys. Star Trek didn't make an impact in society because of what we have seen in the last two films. Wake up.

Well first off whilst they might have eventually made money due to TV rights and DVD/BR sales. They were box office flops

according to boxofficemojo.com

NEM had a production budget of US$60m, it made only US$67.3m

INS repordtly cost US$58m and made only US$112.6m

It's debated but a rule of thumb is that in order to return a profit at the box office it has to make twice what it cost. Due to the cinemas (and other parties) having to take a cut of the box office.

INS was basically a very expesnive two-parter. NEM despite it's flaws at least attempted to be a big screen adventure rather than an expensive TV adventure.

TheSubCommander November 18 2013 05:18 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Insurrection was definitely a missed opportunity to tie in with the then raging Dominion War.

Nemesis, as I have said many a time, should not have involved a clone of Picard. Rather, I think the "Nemesis" should have either been Tomalok, Sela,pr Tom Hardy as his own romulan villain, any of which being "wronged" by Picard in some way, and tied in with a plot of some TNG episode somehow

sonak November 18 2013 06:16 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
the two are often lumped together as "bad Trek," but I think Nemesis gets a bad wrap for being a box-office bomb and coming at the end of an era when the franchise as a whole wasn't doing well. Nemesis is actually pretty similar to Star Trek XI, the latter just feels fresher and more fun.

INS, on the other hand, is just a mess, right near the bottom of all the Trek movies, for reasons that BillJ already covered well.

King Daniel Into Darkness November 18 2013 06:32 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
Quote:

sovereign wrote: (Post 8905453)
I'm not going to write a novel here. The last two films, while financially successful, have been popcorn flicks for the masses. I'm not saying that Insurrection and Nemesis were perfect by any means. Give me a break though. If they would have made money, we would have had a little sci fi wet dream. There is no perfect Trek film. However, I see more "Star Trek" in these flawed films as opposed to anything that came after. Come on guys. Star Trek didn't make an impact in society because of what we have seen in the last two films. Wake up.

Those films had more Star Trek: The Next Generation. The new films have more Star Trek: The Original Series.

I'm guessing you're a fan that considers TNG and not TOS to be the ultimate incarnation of Star Trek?

billcosby November 18 2013 07:05 PM

Re: LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis
 
It doesn't matter.
All that matters is that you enjoy it. Michael Dorn isn't losing any sleep over this.


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