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Khan 2.0 November 10 2013 05:40 PM

Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
The klingons were used as the main villains multiple times for TOS films. Maybe they should’ve used the borg again for Nemesis in like an indirect sequel to FC (to help ensure sizable BO - anyway the borg were far more Picards ‘nemesis’ than any whiney clone).

What story though? obviously not another earth invasion thing. couldve instead explored the borg origins like in that Manga comic. Prometheus style opening flashback scene of first Borg created ... then flash forward to the near to be decommissioned Ent E (like VI would be set good few years after previous film) sent to investigate a massive anomaly in far reaches of unexplored space that is gradually approaching federation territory. Ent E intercepts and discovers huge Giger like biomechanical type sleeper ship. Away team of Picard, Data, 7of9 and red shirts go over and after much Q Who searching, turns out that the big ship seems to be where the first borg came from - the very first borg vessel (tying in with the opening). Away team become infected by black goo type stuff, red shirts turn into zombie like humans - borg without implants. 7of9 becomes like the Borg Queen/Locutus. Double act of Picard and Data manage to escape and uncover the big shocking twist of the movie (that would be kept under wraps) - the Voyager 6 probe. (yes the old Vger was the borg theory that Shatner explored in The Return. The last movie tying in with the 1st type thing - movies come full circle deal)

At the climax, its revealed the Ent was lured there to enable this Vger/Borg to become active. The ship fully activates and totally disables Enterprise then gears up to transwarp earth to assimilate humanity like Vger. Picard desperately tries to ‘reach’ 7of9 and prevent her from fulfilling her ‘destiny’ and she manages to overcome the borg and give Picard enough time for a last chance. The only thing that can be done is if the severely damaged, barely working Enterprise warp crashes into the ship (like the Kelvin and the Prometheus). Picard evacs everyone apart from himself and Data to set collision course/guide into the big ship George Kirk style - Data places little patch on picard and beams him off (“goodbye“) and then he steers damaged Ent into the borg ship destroying it. Both 7of 9 and Data dead (no B4)...USS Excelsior picks up crew and takes earth…Absent friends scene…then TNG crew are given new ship in space dock (like at end of TVH) - Enterprise F

borgboy November 11 2013 03:48 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
I like Nemesis a lot more than I'm supposed to I think. I like the Borg a lot (obviously) but I thought by the end of Voyager they were getting used too often, and weren't always the incredibly scary threat they should've been. The only thing I'd have wanted to change would've been to give the supporting cast more to do. Especially Beverly, who's one of my favorites. I'd have loved to have had the Troi/Riker wedding have finally sparked romance with Picard and Bev.
Your plot does sound really good though, I'm sure I'd have enjoyed it. Data and 7of9 both dying sounds like a bit of a downer though.

MakeshiftPython November 11 2013 05:42 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
The Romulans should have been the main antagonist. After nine movies, it was time to give them their due. But no, we get a clone. When ST09 was announced to have a Romulan villain, I was intrigued. But then Nero happened. :shifty:

GalaxyX November 11 2013 07:16 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
You had be until you killed Data again.

Bry_Sinclair November 11 2013 08:14 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
You had me until Seven reared her boobs again.

Melakon November 11 2013 08:20 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Another problem with using Seven is she'd need to be heavily established within the film for mainstream audiences who are unfamiliar with the character before she's killed off. Not a good idea when it's supposed to be a TNG film starring those actors.

GalaxyX November 11 2013 09:19 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
I think he meant for Seven to appear simply because of her connection to the Borg.

They were really stupid to use Jeri Ryan for sex appeal, since she is an incredibly talented actress, that pretty much carried the show along with Robert Picardo for the last 3 seasons of Voyager. My favourite Seven episodes were the ones where she is wearing a Starfleet uniform, or something else other than "The Catsuit". She comes across the best to me when she is a smart, sweet woman who happens to look amazingly hot.

R. Star November 11 2013 09:49 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Believe it or not people aren't so collectively stupid they can't figure out who someone is just because they haven't watched all the material they've appeared in.

I watched ST3 before I watched most of TOS... I was still able to figure out who Sarek was.

Not that I'm a big fan of the proposed storyline. There was nothing wrong with using Romulans as the villains.... except that's really not what they did in Nemesis. You want a Romulan villain, have Tomalak, who was disgraced by his lost encounters with Picard, despite a sterling record in the Dominion war was refused promotion, and leads a military coup against the government.

Then you have a villain that has a real motive against Picard and the Federation, with some backstory, while not overwhelming to a newcomer, that would enhance the characterization.

Khan 2.0 November 11 2013 11:02 AM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Quote:

GalaxyX wrote: (Post 8875876)
I think he meant for Seven to appear simply because of her connection to the Borg.

yes and also to help add bums on seats:lol: (STX needed all the help it could get)

Jeri Ryan wouldve been on the posters like the cover of Hive comic:
http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cd...w-sthive-t.jpg

Greg Cox November 11 2013 06:50 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
I was always surprised that they didn't work Q into the movies, given how popular the character was . . . .

R. Star November 11 2013 07:25 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Quote:

Greg Cox wrote: (Post 8877121)
I was always surprised that they didn't work Q into the movies, given how popular the character was . . . .


Eh, I always thought his character arc ended perfectly with All Good Things. I really wish Voyager had left well enough alone. Death Wish was a good episode, but the Q and the Grey and Q2 kinda demeaned the whole Continuum into a dysfunctional sitcom family.

Sran November 11 2013 07:47 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
The problem with using the Borg for Nemesis rather than First Contact is that by the time Nemesis was in theaters, the Borg had already been used heavily on Voyager. People were sick of them.

Romulans, by contact, were still something of a blank slate and thus more appetizing to a movie audience. The problem is that the Romulans ended up being depicted not as the villains of Nemesis but as willing participants in Shinzon's plans for genocide until Donatra decided to stand up to him.

--Sran

Khan 2.0 November 11 2013 08:50 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Quote:

The problem with using the Borg for Nemesis rather than First Contact is that by the time Nemesis was in theaters, the Borg had already been used heavily on Voyager. People were sick of them.
thats true. the borg shouldve been reserved for movies only after the success of FC..

Khan 2.0 November 11 2013 09:02 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
uh? i wanted to edit my OP slightly but now cant do it?

Sran November 11 2013 09:04 PM

Re: Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis
 
Quote:

Khan 2.0 wrote: (Post 8877523)
thats true. the borg shouldve been reserved for movies only after the success of FC..

That would've painted Voyager into a corner. As the ship was in the Delta Quadrant- a region of space the Borg were known to inhabit- it would not have made sense to exclude the Borg from television given that Voyager was in only its third season by the time FC was in theaters.

Nemesis would've been fine with Romulans as the primary antagonists. The production team screwed up by trying to shoe-horn in concepts from TWOK and TUC instead of giving the film its own identity. Of course, that may also have had something to do with hiring a director who knew almost nothing about the series.

My lasting memory of that person is a photo of him trying to explain something to Patrick Stewart, with the latter trying not to look mortified at how poorly the former understood whatever the scene was supposed to convey.

--Sran


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