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hammerhead November 10 2013 12:43 AM

Commander Kirk
 
So in Into Darkness we see Kirk been busted down to first officer by Pike, now did that mean we saw him been demoted in rank to Commander?

Now I now he says to Spock not to call him Captain and in response Spock calls him Commander instead on the way to the big meeting. Did his uniform reflect this change in rank, I couldn't tell?

Was this the first time we've seen a Commander Kirk?

Mr. Laser Beam November 10 2013 01:21 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
IIRC, Kirk does wear the insignia of a Commander when they're at the all-hands meeting with Marcus. It would have been the first time we ever see Kirk wear the insignia of any rank lower than Captain.

(For most of ST XI, Kirk is a Lieutenant, but does not wear a full Starfleet uniform.)

teacake November 10 2013 01:37 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
I think you mean XI.

Mr. Laser Beam November 10 2013 01:44 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Yes, my bad :alienblush:

teacake November 10 2013 02:05 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Of course this would have vastly improved Insurrection if Commander Kirk had been in it.

Avro Arrow November 10 2013 02:22 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

hammerhead wrote: (Post 8870611)
So in Into Darkness we see Kirk been busted down to first officer by Pike, now did that mean we saw him been demoted in rank to Commander?

Now I now he says to Spock not to call him Captain and in response Spock calls him Commander instead on the way to the big meeting. Did his uniform reflect this change in rank, I couldn't tell?

Was this the first time we've seen a Commander Kirk?

Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8870818)
IIRC, Kirk does wear the insignia of a Commander when they're at the all-hands meeting with Marcus. It would have been the first time we ever see Kirk wear the insignia of any rank lower than Captain.

I just checked the scene in question on the DVD, and Kirk is still wearing captain's insignia at the meeting.

BigJake November 10 2013 02:24 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

hammerhead wrote: (Post 8870611)
Did his uniform reflect this change in rank, I couldn't tell?

Jim Kirk was promoted at the end of the first movie to the rank of Jim Kirk. This rank is inalterable due to narrative necessity. Trying to square any of this with how a normal human organization would handle ranks is a one-way ticket to the puzzle factory.

Nerys Myk November 10 2013 02:32 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Jim Kirk likes being Captain. Any time he isn't a Captain, the universe conspires to make him one.

teacake November 10 2013 02:33 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
"I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!!!"

Mr. Laser Beam November 10 2013 02:36 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

Avro Arrow wrote: (Post 8871022)
I just checked the scene in question on the DVD, and Kirk is still wearing captain's insignia at the meeting.

Whoopsies.

hammerhead November 10 2013 01:45 PM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

Avro Arrow wrote: (Post 8871022)

I just checked the scene in question on the DVD, and Kirk is still wearing captain's insignia at the meeting.

Thanks for checking Avro Arrow, so it seems he didn't have time for a uniform change or he was still Captain as Spock believed. But Kirk specifically corrected him and seemed to be ok when Spock called him Commander.

Was Spock wearing the right insignia in that scene? Guess it's all moot as Marcus obviously reversed the demotion, but it'd be nice to get confirmation that the demotion occurred!

Lance November 10 2013 02:47 PM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
That he is demoted to executive officer of Enterprise is beyond doubt.

Although he acknowledges that his 'official' rank in that position is Commander, as Pike has been made Captain of the Enterprise again, maybe that doesn't necessarily mean that his actual rank takes a hit. Maybe he can still technically be a Captain and yet also be an XO/Commander. His "spoken rank" is really only reflective of his position aboard the ship, at least for the 20 seconds that Pike has resumed the Captaincy anyway. :)

Hartzilla2007 November 10 2013 07:27 PM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

hammerhead wrote: (Post 8872264)
Was Spock wearing the right insignia in that scene? Guess it's all moot as Marcus obviously reversed the demotion, but it'd be nice to get confirmation that the demotion occurred!

Spock wasn't demoted he was transfered.

Mr. Laser Beam November 11 2013 01:34 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
The Abramsverse seems a bit cavalier about rank, though (and not just Kirk jumping straight from Lt. to Captain. What about Cupcake, for example?), so it's not really surprising if somebody's not wearing the right insignia.

King Daniel Into Darkness November 11 2013 03:13 AM

Re: Commander Kirk
 
Quote:

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: (Post 8870818)
IIRC, Kirk does wear the insignia of a Commander when they're at the all-hands meeting with Marcus. It would have been the first time we ever see Kirk wear the insignia of any rank lower than Captain.

(For most of ST XI, Kirk is a Lieutenant, but does not wear a full Starfleet uniform.)

I'm pretty sure he's still in Captain's dress uniform, with three stripes, four pips and the TMP-style insignia set in a circle. A commander would have two stripes, three pips and a plain arrowhead (and Admiral a white uniform front and gold insignia set in a circle)

Since Kirk presumably walked right out of Starfleet after being bumped back to the academy, then went straight from the bar to the emergency meeting, he didn't have time to requisition a new uniform.


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