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A beaker full of death November 8 2013 11:36 PM

New Ms. Marvel
 
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.

milo bloom November 8 2013 11:50 PM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

A beaker full of death wrote: (Post 8867026)
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.


What?!?

Guy Gardener November 8 2013 11:52 PM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Define failure. How many issues before cancellation?

Gov Kodos November 8 2013 11:55 PM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
And will failure be due to being conservative, a feminist, a Muslim, or a woman?

Saga November 8 2013 11:57 PM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

A beaker full of death wrote: (Post 8867026)
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.

read the first six issues already have you? :rolleyes:

Turtletrekker November 8 2013 11:57 PM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
I agree that she'll be lucky to get 12 issues, but not for the reasons you cite.

Also, we are already talking about this in the Marvel thread.

Guy Gardener November 9 2013 12:35 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
I wonder if it will touch upon arranged marriage?

Would her super powers make more or less desirable as the families are haggling about her dowry?

iguana_tonante November 9 2013 01:15 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

Turtletrekker wrote: (Post 8867122)
I agree that she'll be lucky to get 12 issues, but not for the reasons you cite.

Agreed. In fact, I'll say that people like Beaker are one of the most prominent reasons groundbreaking characters have such difficult publishing histories.

Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.

A beaker full of death November 9 2013 01:27 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 8867491)
In fact, I'll say that people like Beaker are one of the most prominent reasons groundbreaking characters have such difficult publishing histories.

Ace, you don't know me, so back the fuck up. There is nothing "groundbreaking" about a Muslim character. I DO object to superficially having her be Muslim without at all broaching all that entails, yes, which is something you should have gleaned from my original post. I'm all for groundbreaking. Randomly deciding a character is now gay, or black, or handicapped is not groundbreaking. How about dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means?

Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 8867491)

Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.

ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about? Just WHY the very concept of "Ms." Marvel was so revolutionary at the time?

CaptainCanada November 9 2013 01:30 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Which isn't remotely notable now. "Ms." is the standard form of address.

A beaker full of death November 9 2013 01:35 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

Gov Kodos wrote: (Post 8867113)
And will failure be due to being conservative, a feminist, a Muslim, or a woman?

A failure to delve into any of those - and their interaction - on any meaningful level.

LaxScrutiny November 9 2013 01:42 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

CaptainCanada wrote: (Post 8867551)
Which isn't remotely notable now. "Ms." is the standard form of address.

To me this is like saying Bruce Wayne's parent's getting killed is irrelevant to the current iteration of the character.

Nerys Myk November 9 2013 01:46 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
The article say the character admires Carol Danvers and that's why she takes the name. The feminist origins of the term aren't really relevant to her taking the name and neither are any ties she might have to conservative Islam. The picture of the character shows a woman is less than modest garb ( by fundamentalist Muslim standards ) so I doubt the character is in the chador/hijab camp.

iguana_tonante November 9 2013 02:17 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

A beaker full of death wrote: (Post 8867536)
Ace, you don't know me, so back the fuck up.

I know you, well, enough. Ace. :lol:

Quote:

A beaker full of death wrote: (Post 8867536)
I DO object to superficially having her be Muslim without at all broaching all that entails

What does it entail? She believes in god and calls it Allah. Big deal.

Quote:

A beaker full of death wrote: (Post 8867536)
Randomly deciding a character is now gay, or black, or handicapped is not groundbreaking. How about dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means?

It doesn't need to mean anything. It can mean something, but it needn't to. People are randomly gay, black, handicapped, or god-forbid Muslim. They are not some kind of issues-oriented Other. Just, you know, people. It's not like they a reason not to conform to 50s' white American eteronormative standards, right? Or they do?

Quote:

Quote:


Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?

IndyJones November 9 2013 02:25 AM

Re: New Ms. Marvel
 
Quote:

iguana_tonante wrote: (Post 8867755)
It doesn't need to mean anything. It can mean something, but it needn't to. People are randomly gay, black, handicapped, or god-forbid Muslim. They are not some kind of issues-oriented Other. Just, you know, people. It's not like they a reason not to conform to 50s' white American eteronormative standards, right? Or they do?

This. A hundred times this.

It's one thing to decide you want a gay, black, handicapped, or Muslim character in your fiction. And they should be there, to some degree. The problem is inserting that character and having their gayness, blackness, handicap, or religion be the totality of their character.

But having her be a normal person, who's trait can be remarked upon occasionally when relevant or interesting? That's what we should want out of these changes in society.


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