The Trek BBS

The Trek BBS (http://www.trekbbs.com/index.php)
-   Star Trek Movies I-X (http://www.trekbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42)
-   -   You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"? (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=230404)

Lance November 8 2013 09:54 PM

You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
The fact that the Son'a are such open-and-shut baddies from the very first time we see them.

You know, good movie villains trade on ambiguity. Heck, even the Borg Queen had a more justifiable reason for her actions than the Son'a. Even Khan had that little thing about Marla McGivers' death, that gave him pathos and something we can empathize with. What have the Son'a got? Nothing. They're narcissists whose plain motivation is their own well-being. They're drawn as such BAD baddies that it stretches credibility that Starfleet would ever be stupid enough to fall in with them, Dominion War or no Dominion War.

I mean, even if the movie had actually played the old predictable switcharoo and played the Son'a as being sympathetic to start with but only gradually unravel and become more villanous as their real plans become obvious, that I could've accepted. Or if Admiral Doughety had been portrayed as being duped along with the rest of us. But the movie plays the Son'a as villains from the very moment they first appear on screen, and Doughety is likewise painted as a corrupt Admiral. Sure, it's broad strokes. It makes it easier for dumbasses in the audience to understand who the good guys and bad guys are in this movie because they're hitting you over the head with a sign reading "THIS GUY = BAD" all the way through. But good characterization it was not. Good writing it was not. :vulcan:

When even Riker and Troi's research into the Son'a leads them to wonder aloud why we're in bed with these guys, you know your story has gone wrong somewhere along the way.

DonIago November 8 2013 10:00 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
Given the moral ambiguity of the Baku it's probably for the best that the Son'a aren't played more ambiguous than they are.

BillJ November 8 2013 10:23 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"? That it's a shitty movie? That is what irks me.

LOKAI of CHERON November 8 2013 10:27 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
But, Ru'afo was really good at popping veins and high pitched screaming.

Sran November 8 2013 10:30 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
^I thought he was also really good at skulking around looking pissed off all the time. The Son'a remind me of the nuclear holocaust survivors seen in Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

--Sran

BillJ November 8 2013 10:34 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
What a terrible movie and missed opportunity.

The only part of the movie I did like was the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine.

Melakon November 8 2013 10:40 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
F. Murray Abraham must have been wondering what happened to his career after winning the Oscar.

Lance November 8 2013 10:42 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8866744)
You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"? That it's a shitty movie? That is what irks me.

:guffaw: Well yes, there is that as well I suppose. :D :techman:

2takesfrakes November 9 2013 12:42 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
Quote:

BillJ wrote: (Post 8866783)
What a terrible movie and missed opportunity.

The only part of the movie I did like was the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine.

That was the only part I really disliked about INSURRECTION!

I don't find it to be "a terrible movie," by any means. However, I do agree that there were some missed opportunities, here. But that's true of any STAR TREK.

BillJ November 9 2013 02:08 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
Quote:

2takesfrakes wrote: (Post 8868952)

I don't find it to be "a terrible movie," by any means. However, I do agree that there were some missed opportunities, here. But that's true of any STAR TREK.

They missed way too much so they could make Picard an action hero "fighting the man" and chasing a piece of ass.

The Making of Star Trek: Insurrection by Michael Piller is an awesome book and shows what a great movie there could have been had they not had Stewart and Spiner involved.

T'Girl November 9 2013 08:31 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
Quote:

DonIago wrote: (Post 8866666)
Given the moral ambiguity of the Baku it's probably for the best that the Son'a aren't played more ambiguous than they are.

The ambiguities within the film are it's prime attribute. The Sona are evil, but it is they who will bring the health benefits of the rings to the common man in the federation. The beautiful Baku are the ones blocking this process.

Picard's position seemingly is more based upon his personal admiration with the Baku lifestyle, than any legal or moral standpoint.

Even at the film very end, we hear that the federation council ordered a review, but we never find out the review's outcome.


:)

publiusr November 9 2013 08:51 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
The writings of the unabomber were topical then--and all the plastic surgery--it was a piece against consumer culture. I despised the Baku myself.

R. Star November 9 2013 08:51 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
The Sona really weren't that bad. It was an hour into the movie before they did anything more menacing than bleed on Picard's carpet.

Lance November 10 2013 02:47 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
^ They've got 'intergalactic assholes' written all over them from virtually the first scene they appear in. :D

Mind you, I suppose that isn't really a reason for the Federation not to ally with them, is it? Seeing as the Federation seems to be full of intergalactic assholes itself (see any Admiral in the series, heck see the Admiral in this very movie!).

DonIago November 10 2013 05:05 PM

Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?
 
The Federation was also in the midst of the most costly war it had ever experienced; it's not entirely surprising if they made some moral sacrifices along the way.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.