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-   -   Peeling "The Apple" (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=230149)

ZapBrannigan November 5 2013 08:26 AM

Peeling "The Apple"
 
I just posted my thoughts about "The Apple" on another bboard and now here they are as well.

I like it when Kirk says "Jettison the nacelles and crack out of there with the main section if you have to."

He was definitely referring to saucer separation. And it made sense in that situation. All Scotty had working was the impulse engines against Vaal's tractor beam. The impulse engines are on the saucer, so dumping the powerless drive section would lighten the mass of the ship with no loss of thrust, making it vastly easier to break away.

Overall I think "The Apple" was a relatively crummy episode, and it has not aged well, making matters worse.

- Kirk and McCoy don't have the slightest thought of resuscitating the first redshirt when he gets hit with poison plant darts, or of beaming up to see what can be done for him in Sickbay.

- Kirk greets a native who's trying to hide by sneaking up and punching him in the mouth without warning.

- Chekov says to Martha, "If we had to stay here, would it be so wery bad?" Well, let's see: If we have to stay here, that means 421 of our shipmates are going to suffer a fiery death in the upper atmosphere. No biggie.

- After destroying the natives' whole economy, social order, and way of life (forced to or not), Kirk is incredibly cavalier and insouciant about it. "Yeah, you've just lost your eternal youth so you'll start aging now, and your community is too small to survive as a viable gene pool, and you have no idea how much hard labor is ahead of you as subsistance farmers, but you're going to like it soon." This was Star Trek's version of "We had to pass the plan so you could see what's in it."

Creepy Critter November 5 2013 09:02 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851681)
Overall I think "The Apple" was a relatively crummy episode, and it has not aged well, making matters worse.

But, Celeste Yarnall. Therefore, your argument is invalid. ;)

I kid, I kid (kinda). Yeah, the episode blows.

In all seriousness, it could have been so much better and still have kept the overall premise, I think.

The epilogue scene comparing Spock to Satan is really embarrassing too, I thought. Today, it plays as downright racist. Well, it does to me, anyway.

teacock November 5 2013 09:44 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851681)
- After destroying the natives' whole economy, social order, and way of life (forced to or not), Kirk is incredibly cavalier and insouciant about it. "Yeah, you've just lost your eternal youth so you'll start aging now, and your community is too small to survive as a viable gene pool, and you have no idea how much hard labor is ahead of you as subsistance farmers, but you're going to like it soon." This was Star Trek's version of "We had to pass the plan so you could see what's in it."

Kirk doesn't concern himself with paperwork and relief efforts.. someone on the ship would be assembling Starter Kits for Civilization and beaming them down to the settlement.

Metryq November 5 2013 10:27 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
(Zap's inner Spock is showing again. How many people who are not professional writers do you know who sling around words like "insouciant"? I thought that meant uncooked Japanese fish before I looked it up.)

Prime Directive? What Prime Directive?

And what's a Celeste Yarnall? I had to look that up, too, and found The top Star Trek:TOS babes that are rarely mentioned.

teacock November 5 2013 11:02 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
That so called "uber Trekkie" who made the list obviously doesn't exist on forums. Including Helen Noel as "rarely mentioned" ?!

I also object to Mariette Harley being in that list. I've been mentioning her since I first laid eyes on her LOLOL

Dr. Sevrin November 5 2013 11:27 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 8851708)
The epilogue scene comparing Spock to Satan is really embarrassing too, I thought. Today, it plays as downright racist. Well, it does to me, anyway.

If anything, Spock himself is the one who brings up the whole comparison.

Quote:

SPOCK: Captain, you are aware of the biblical story of Genesis.

KIRK: Yes, of course I'm aware of it. Adam and Eve tasted the apple and as a result were driven out of paradise.

SPOCK: Precisely, Captain, and in a manner of speaking, we have given the people of Vaal the apple, the knowledge of good and evil if you will, as a result of which they too have been driven out of paradise.

KIRK: Doctor, do I understand him correctly? Are you casting me in the role of Satan?

SPOCK: Not at all, Captain.

KIRK: Is there anyone on this ship who even remotely looks like Satan?

(McCoy and Kirk walk around Spock. McCoy is gazing intently at his ears.)

SPOCK: I am not aware of anyone who fits that description, Captain.

Creepy Critter November 5 2013 11:48 AM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

Melakon wrote: (Post 8851876)
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 8851708)
The epilogue scene comparing Spock to Satan is really embarrassing too, I thought. Today, it plays as downright racist. Well, it does to me, anyway.

If anything, Spock himself is the one who brings up the whole comparison.

Quote:

SPOCK: Captain, you are aware of the biblical story of Genesis.

KIRK: Yes, of course I'm aware of it. Adam and Eve tasted the apple and as a result were driven out of paradise.

SPOCK: Precisely, Captain, and in a manner of speaking, we have given the people of Vaal the apple, the knowledge of good and evil if you will, as a result of which they too have been driven out of paradise.

KIRK: Doctor, do I understand him correctly? Are you casting me in the role of Satan?

SPOCK: Not at all, Captain.

KIRK: Is there anyone on this ship who even remotely looks like Satan?

(McCoy and Kirk walk around Spock. McCoy is gazing intently at his ears.)

SPOCK: I am not aware of anyone who fits that description, Captain.

It is Spock who first suggested that he's the only one on the ship who looks like Satan? I don't think so.

ZapBrannigan November 5 2013 01:08 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.

Push The Button November 5 2013 01:09 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
That Vaal was fueled only by the leaves, orange peels and other organic matter that the natives were feeding it never made any sense, given that it was regulating the climate of the entire planet and trying to pull the Enterprise out of orbit with a tractor beam.

Mytran November 5 2013 01:18 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Spock really was casting Kirk in role of Satan, as the one who gave the "apple" to the natives. In this instance, Spock got as good as he gave. And it's all done fairly subtly by TOS standards (the bickering between McCoy and Spock in later season 2 got really bad for a while).

jpv2000 November 5 2013 02:34 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

Push The Button wrote: (Post 8851960)
That Vaal was fueled only by the leaves, orange peels and other organic matter that the natives were feeding it never made any sense, given that it was regulating the climate of the entire planet and trying to pull the Enterprise out of orbit with a tractor beam.

It wasn't leaves and fruit, it was the energy rocks that would blow up.

Dr. Sevrin November 5 2013 05:13 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
I have the feeling the only reason Vaal didn't receive a human sacrifice was because the People of Vaal were denied the freedom to mate.

plynch November 5 2013 05:32 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851954)
I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.

Doomsday and Changeling both end with a Gene Coon chuckler at the end, too. It is he -- according to what I've read here -- who lightened the tone and made the crew less military and more familial.

This is an episode people who call Trek "camp" can point to, I think.

TREK_GOD_1 November 5 2013 05:54 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851954)
The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

"Obsession" is another offender in this regard. "City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.

The fact Kirk was presented as anguished over crew deaths at all was enough; he did not need to carry the weight of Starfleet burial / torpedo tubes on his shoulders by the close of every episode where a death occured. That's the problem with TV from the 90s-forward: too many walk around in a depressed funk--in nearly every episode--like one in serious need of the couch or the edge of a rooftop.

Brown-Eyed Ghoul November 5 2013 06:13 PM

Re: Peeling "The Apple"
 
Quote:

Metryq wrote: (Post 8851789)
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 8851708)
Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851681)
Overall I think "The Apple" was a relatively crummy episode, and it has not aged well, making matters worse.

But, Celeste Yarnall. Therefore, your argument is invalid. ;)

And what's a Celeste Yarnall? I had to look that up, too, and found The top Star Trek:TOS babes that are rarely mentioned.

Her name may not be familiar to some of the younger Trekkers, but she was a breathtaking beauty back in her acting days. And, unlike the episode, I think she's aged rather well.

Quote:

ZapBrannigan wrote: (Post 8851954)
Quote:

CorporalCaptain wrote: (Post 8851708)
The epilogue scene comparing Spock to Satan is really embarrassing too, I thought. Today, it plays as downright racist. Well, it does to me, anyway.

I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died. If Kirk is a realistic character, his happy-talk with Spock and McCoy is a total facade here. He has to explain his losses to the Admiralty and probably write letters to four next of kin.

^^ This. There were other episodes where Spock took some affectionate ribbing about his devilish appearance, e.g. "Bread and Circuses." Nothing racist about it. But by the middle of the second season, the forced jokey ending was already becoming a Trek cliché.

And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.


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