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SignGuyHPW October 25 2013 05:41 AM

Shuttles
 
How durable were the shuttles supposed to be in TNG? In TOS the shuttle didn't seem to have any defenses and had limited range. They sent Scotty out in a shuttle during TNG with the implication that he'd be totally safe flying around the galaxy in it. Where the designs of a what a shuttle could do that different?

R. Star October 25 2013 06:21 AM

Re: Shuttles
 
Given how often they crashed, got blown up or otherwise destroyed... not very durable at all.

LMFAOschwarz October 25 2013 06:37 AM

Re: Shuttles
 
I've kinda wondered about that, too. They do in a way have kind of a flimsy appearance to us, but clearly they are at least space-worthy. It's obvious to say that, but its actual definition is vague.

The range question is hard to address. In the original series we saw Kirk and Commodore Mendez attempting to catch the Enterprise in one, but there were references to the fuel supply running down, though we have no idea how far they'd flown at that point, though it couldn't have been too long.

On the other hand, Lokai of Cheron had stolen a shuttle from Starbase Two (or was it Four?), and it was stated that the shuttle was stolen two weeks ago when the Enterprise had run across it.

Presumably they could do more by the time The Next Generation had come, but I've no idea how much more. They were sometimes seen to be used for rather long journeys, so they must have been reasonably durable. One can assume they had replicators, so people would have access to food and water. As far as sleep...I would have to conclude that they'd have to snooze in the pilot seats.

Defense-wise, I'm not so sure. I seem to remember the Romulans had no trouble immobilizing Geordi's shuttle in The Mind's Eye.

sbk1234 October 25 2013 03:08 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

GoRe Star wrote: (Post 8811853)
Given how often they crashed, got blown up or otherwise destroyed... not very durable at all.

They were still better than Voyager's shuttles.;)

od0_ital October 25 2013 03:29 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
When they gave Scotty the shuttle, wasn't there a line that it would get him to the retirement colony he was originally headed for a hundred years prior?

So, the E-D was within range of known Federation territory, and Scotty wasn't just gonna be adrift in space on the far reaches or anything. The shuttle could get him anywhere he would need to go, eventually.

And if ya go by the novels, Scotty gets back to Earth, becomes a host of a bar, and winds up in charge of Starfleet's Corps of Engineers before gettin' command of a Galaxy class starship.

Makarov October 25 2013 09:46 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
I have a related question. If a shuttle gets destroyed do they just replicate another one? Or do they actually have to build it? Now that I think about it, couldn't they just build a really big replicator and pump out galaxy class starships?

WalkerBait October 25 2013 09:56 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

Makarov wrote: (Post 8813914)
I have a related question. If a shuttle gets destroyed do they just replicate another one? Or do they actually have to build it? Now that I think about it, couldn't they just build a really big replicator and pump out galaxy class starships?

I doubt they can just "replicate" entire starships. That's stretching the technology a bit too far. We could probably argue there's quantum-level details in starship building that's critical and since replicators only work on an atomic level they can't be replicated. Certain parts and materials, sure, but not the entire thing.

It could also be a "cost" thing, the amount of energy it'd take to replicate an entire starship exceeds the energy it takes to simply mine certain materials, smelt them into alloys and to have workers build it from scratch. Again, it's one thing to replicate certain parts and materials, it's another to replicate tons of a common metal you can just harvest from an asteroid or something at half the energy cost.

Along the same lines I doubt they can just "replicate' shuttles again coming back to a quantum-level complexity that would be lost in the replication process or a cost-benefit situation. It's not worth replicating an entire shuttle when you can just go to a starbase and pick one up at no energy cost. (Energy better spent for other things like food, propulsion, etc.)

Energy is very, very plentiful in the Federation but it's not infinite and still "costs" something to make. Either in dilithium or in antimatter (which must either be harvested/collected or produced in some manner.)

Takeru October 25 2013 10:02 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

F0under wrote: (Post 8812810)
And if ya go by the novels, Scotty gets back to Earth, becomes a host of a bar, and winds up in charge of Starfleet's Corps of Engineers before gettin' command of a Galaxy class starship.

It's fanficcy crap like this that makes me dislike the novels.

vulcan redshirt October 26 2013 03:25 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
They can probably replicate some components and manufacture others. Then it's just a big IKEA flatpack, (or an Airfix kit).

Elvira October 26 2013 06:26 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

F0under wrote: (Post 8812810)
And if ya go by the novels, Scotty gets back to Earth, becomes a host of a bar, and winds up in charge of Starfleet's Corps of Engineers before gettin' command of a Galaxy class starship.

Thank you for reinforcing my decision not to read the modern novels.




:devil:

R. Star October 26 2013 06:47 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

Trekker4747 wrote: (Post 8813974)

Along the same lines I doubt they can just "replicate' shuttles again coming back to a quantum-level complexity that would be lost in the replication process or a cost-benefit situation. It's not worth replicating an entire shuttle when you can just go to a starbase and pick one up at no energy cost. (Energy better spent for other things like food, propulsion, etc.)

Voyager managed it just fine. They built their super shuttle in the space of a single episode, and unless they had like 50 plus shuttles crammed in every nook and cranny of the ship, they were rebuilding those things non-stop.

F. King Daniel October 26 2013 07:06 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

Takeru wrote: (Post 8814019)
Quote:

F0under wrote: (Post 8812810)
And if ya go by the novels, Scotty gets back to Earth, becomes a host of a bar, and winds up in charge of Starfleet's Corps of Engineers before gettin' command of a Galaxy class starship.

It's fanficcy crap like this that makes me dislike the novels.

Of course, taken out of context like that most of Trek reads like TNG season 8. Those novels were great reads, especially Indistinguishable From Magic.

lurok October 26 2013 07:46 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
I'd be less concerned about flimsy-ness than smell :)

Quote:

TORRES: I don't know about you, but I've got a case of class two claustrophobia.
PARIS: Ah, I remember it well.
SEVEN: Lieutenant?
TORRES: Oh, that's what Starfleet cadets used to call these class two shuttles. Fast, manoeuvrable, but not built for comfort.
PARIS: They used to shoehorn half a dozen cadets into one of these things for weeks at a time. You did not want to be around when they opened up that airlock.

WalkerBait October 26 2013 08:04 PM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

GoRe Star wrote: (Post 8816920)
Quote:

Trekker4747 wrote: (Post 8813974)

Along the same lines I doubt they can just "replicate' shuttles again coming back to a quantum-level complexity that would be lost in the replication process or a cost-benefit situation. It's not worth replicating an entire shuttle when you can just go to a starbase and pick one up at no energy cost. (Energy better spent for other things like food, propulsion, etc.)

Voyager managed it just fine. They built their super shuttle in the space of a single episode, and unless they had like 50 plus shuttles crammed in every nook and cranny of the ship, they were rebuilding those things non-stop.

Yeah, let's not mention Voyager. They abandoned the "limited energy and resources" idea pretty damn fast.

mythme October 27 2013 01:31 AM

Re: Shuttles
 
Quote:

LMFAOschwarz wrote: (Post 8811898)
Defense-wise, I'm not so sure. I seem to remember the Romulans had no trouble immobilizing Geordi's shuttle in The Mind's Eye.

That was a shuttle POD, the type-6 and 7s seen later had better capabilities. On a few occasions there is reference to shuttles being outfitted with phaser banks and reinforced shielding.


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