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T'Girl October 20 2013 03:03 PM

Kira Authority
 
When it comes to her authority over Starfleet personnel, how long is Kira's reach?

Kira gives legal orders and instructions to Starfleet officers and enlisted on DS9 and aboard the Defiant. I figure that there is some form of "status of forces" agreement between the federation and Bajor. But does that agreement have limits.

But if Kira were to be aboard a Starfleet vessel other than the Defiant, could she give an order to say an low level enlisted member of Starfleet, and have be obeyed? Not a request, but an order.

If a modern day naval officer from India, gave a order to a US Navy seaman, the seaman would not carry out that order, and actually could be charged with a legal offense if he did.

So, beyond certain areas (DS9 and the Defiant) is Major/Colonel Kira essentially powerless?

:devil:

Mr. Laser Beam October 20 2013 03:33 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
Kira only has authority on DS9, the Defiant, and DS9's runabouts. That's because she was posted there, and Starfleet (cooperating with the Bajoran government) gave her the authority. Those are the only places she has it.

Bad Thoughts October 20 2013 03:59 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
I don't think it is precise to say that she only has authority on DS9 and the Defiant. Rather, she has authority only through her position on DS9 and the Defiant. Indeed, when Sisko is affected by the closing of the Wormhole, Kira takes over the command of the Defiant. There is no indication that when she did, the Defiant surrendered its lead role in the assault. Quite to the contrary, it appears to continue to lead the Federation efforts to destroy the weapons platforms.

Mr. Laser Beam October 20 2013 04:02 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
^ That's exactly what I just said. The Defiant is part of Kira's posting, as are DS9 and its associated runabouts. In any of those places, Kira has full command authority. But OUTSIDE of them, she has none.

Bad Thoughts October 20 2013 04:16 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
^No, it wasn't what I wrote. Kira being able to give commands to other starships in the midst of battle is not the same thing as her authority being limited to DS9 and the vessels it operates. Of course, I am open to evidence from the series that shows something different.

R. Star October 20 2013 06:51 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
I never even liked that Kira was given command of the Defiant so much. To me that seemed rather out of place, especially when Worf showed up and was supposed to essentially be the ship's first officer.

Bad Thoughts October 20 2013 07:19 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
^The first officer should have been determined by the nature of the Defiant's mission, whether it was for the station or for the Federation. That said, Kira had no business being on the bridge of the Defiant, let alone commanding it, at the Battle of Chintoka. (Wasn't the non-aggression pact still in place?)

Mr. Laser Beam October 20 2013 09:18 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
@Solbor, I assume that Kira's command of the Defiant extends to any ships that are placed in a fleet headed by the Defiant.

Either that, or Kira could be installed as a fleet commander if Sisko says so. Sisko, as her CO, has that authority. (I don't remember offhand what Worf was doing during that battle.)

galad2003 October 21 2013 02:12 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
To be fair, in the middle of a battle is not the time to hash out if she had authority over the rest of the fleet. The other ships may have followed her orders as the captains of those ships were wise enough to realize it was not the right time to argue over something like that.

Similarly if the 1st officer of the Defiant was a starfleet officer it would have been inappropriate for the other captains to be like, "I am not listening to you I am a captain and you are only a commander." There would have been chaos in the middle of battle as everyone bickered over who was in charge.

Side note - when I was in the Navy we had a British officer on our sub a couple of times. I have no idea who he was or what he did as I was engineering so we worked in our own little world and he wasn't allowed in the engine room. I always assumed he was just an observer but now I wonder if he ever served as OOD. We always did weird stuff that was never explained to me.

Nightdiamond October 21 2013 03:54 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
Quote:

GoRe Star wrote: (Post 8792734)
I never even liked that Kira was given command of the Defiant so much. To me that seemed rather out of place, especially when Worf showed up and was supposed to essentially be the ship's first officer.

I had the assumption that an officer had to have official training to be qualified to command a Starfleet ship.

Like knowing about engines, logistics, policies and procedures. I know she was an experienced resistance soldier, but it did look kind out of place.

It makes sense that she'd know everything about DS9, but commanding a starfleet ship just like that seemed a little odd.

It's like BElana Tores from Voyager, being made chief engineer over commissioned officers, even though she never graduated from the academy. i think she spent only a year there and then left.

Sigokat October 22 2013 12:31 PM

Re: Kira Authority
 
In terms of comparison to modern day combat, I look at it from the viewpoint of Bajor being a Coalition Ally to the Federation.

For example I currently work in a Joint Command on a Coalition run base. Since the base is run by one of our Coalition partners we have to abide by the rules and regulations they have put in place for the base. However, if a Canadian Colonel walks into my office and starts issuing orders that are in direct conflict to the orders for my actual command I am under no obligation to follow them because that Colonel is not in my chain of command. I only have to follow his orders in regards to the base or if something is a safety issue.

Bad Thoughts October 23 2013 12:40 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
Quote:

Unspeakable wrote: (Post 8792179)
If a modern day naval officer from India, gave a order to a US Navy seaman, the seaman would not carry out that order, and actually could be charged with a legal offense if he did.

Quote:

Nightdiamond wrote: (Post 8794699)
It makes sense that she'd know everything about DS9, but commanding a starfleet ship just like that seemed a little odd.

Quote:

Sigokat wrote: (Post 8799406)
In terms of comparison to modern day combat, I look at it from the viewpoint of Bajor being a Coalition Ally to the Federation.

For example I currently work in a Joint Command on a Coalition run base. Since the base is run by one of our Coalition partners we have to abide by the rules and regulations they have put in place for the base. However, if a Canadian Colonel walks into my office and starts issuing orders that are in direct conflict to the orders for my actual command I am under no obligation to follow them because that Colonel is not in my chain of command. I only have to follow his orders in regards to the base or if something is a safety issue.

One thing that I thing makes current military relations a poor example of Kira's relationship with Starfleet is that Bajor is a potential Federation member. It's clear from the pilot that the Federation leadership wants Bajor to join, and it wouldn't make much sense to alienate the planet's military leadership. [STRIKE]I think that the process of German re-unification would have been slowed had the Bundeswehr resisted the integration of East German soldiers and commanders.[/STRIKE]

R. Star October 23 2013 12:45 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
Quote:

Solbor's Blood wrote: (Post 8802097)
I think that the process of German re-unification would have been slowed had the Bundeswehr resisted the integration of East German soldiers and commanders.

Didn't every member of the East German Army lose their pensions on reunification?

Bad Thoughts October 23 2013 12:47 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
^You know, I seem to have gotten the facts wrong.

ETA: yep, I had read some memoires of sailors of the Volksmarine in the Federal German military--I assumed that most had been retained, when only a portion had.

mickmike October 23 2013 01:47 AM

Re: Kira Authority
 
Deep Space Nine wasn't actually a Federation Starbase during the series. It was a Bajoran Station under Federation Administration. Given that, it stands to reason that command of the Defiant would have been granted to Kira as a courtesy/part of the treaty just as command of the station would have been granted to The Federation. I'm sure if Bajor had really pushed the issue, a Bajoran officer could have been in command from day one.

I imagine Kira would have command authority on all Federation assets within the Bajoran Sector as part of the agreement between Bajor and the Federation. However if Kira were to go aboard the Enterprise in a different sector for example i'd imagine she would be an observer/consultant and only be given command authority if Picard authorised it.

I did notice though that once Worf arrived on the scene Kira commanded the Defiant a lot less.


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