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F. King Daniel October 10 2013 02:27 PM

The Orion Union
 
Gaila was a cadet in ST'09, and in ID there was an Orion crewman on the Enterprise and another, a civilian, in San Francisco.

Are Orion/Federation relations different in the AU, or do you think there were some Orions in Starfleet and on Earth in the TOS timeline too? I'm thinking that Pike's fantasy image in "The Cage" of Orion woman as a strange and rare commodity paints an inaccurate picture of what things were "really" like.

Shatinator October 10 2013 04:46 PM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Why wouldn't it be. After all the Ferengi are not part of UFP, but Nog went to Starfleet Academy. Unless in this universe one assumes banning entire species (sounds more like the Mirror -Prime- Universe).
But then again, Starfleet took Wesley too...and he can a real pain in the ass; so maybe bans aren't all that bad ;)

R. Star October 10 2013 09:45 PM

Re: The Orion Union
 
I give them a pass on that. Sure the Orions have always been antagonists, but I would imagine a race that routinely enslaves their own people would have a high number of refugees heading towards the Federation.

Sindatur October 11 2013 04:09 PM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Quote:

GoRe Star wrote: (Post 8752885)
I give them a pass on that. Sure the Orions have always been antagonists, but I would imagine a race that routinely enslaves their own people would have a high number of refugees heading towards the Federation.

Yea, but, we've never seen any Orion Men running free, just a few Orion Women,who, of course are the actual slavers ;)

YellowSubmarine October 11 2013 07:36 PM

Re: The Orion Union
 
There are Japanese people in Europe, some are even running for office, and Japan is not part of the European Union. There are Albanian people in the USA, some are even hosting reality TV shows, and Albania is not a US state (even if they are interested). Why shouldn't there be Orion people in the Federation, or Starfleet for that matter? That their world is not part of the Federation is not a reason at all.

What's more, I would like to believe that as much as the Federation stays further away from the internal affairs of its members than any planetary government, it still upholds certain standards, particularly regarding slavery. Picard's speeches in "A Measure of a Man" would seem to imply as much. I would assume that not only Orion women victims of slavery would find a home in the Federation, but they would be actively encouraged to do so, which would create a large Orion women diaspora on the Federation worlds.

DEWLine December 19 2013 04:43 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
I suspect there's factions among the Orions, some allied to the Orion Syndicate, others choosing the Federation. What sort of arrangement the Orion Union as depicted on Marcus' map has internally and externally...I can't guess.

Wadjda December 20 2013 10:12 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
There is an Orion security guy in the ongoing comic.

Chaos Descending December 20 2013 07:18 PM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Neither China nor South Korea are part of the United States, but I served in the US Navy with Lin Jim Ching and Han Chu Shin.

EmoBorg December 27 2013 04:33 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Quote:

Chaos Descending wrote: (Post 9035702)
Neither China nor South Korea are part of the United States, but I served in the US Navy with Lin Jim Ching and Han Chu Shin.

I agree. When i was in the army almost a decade ago, i served with muslims. It is possible for Orion immigrants to serve in the Federation.

Sci December 31 2013 02:46 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile? And it's also possible that there's just a significant Orion diaspora within the Federation, with its members as citizens of the Federation and of whatever Federation Member State they live in. (Maybe there's a large community of Alpha Centauran Orions, or Ithenite Orions, or Grazerite Orions?)

Brutal Strudel December 31 2013 04:15 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek. Why can't they be another greened-skin people? There are enough brown- and beige-skinned humanoids in Trek and at least two prominent blue-skinned races in the Andorians and the Bolians. Maybe these girls were the vaguely Vulcanoid Rigelians we heard about JtB.

Sci December 31 2013 05:25 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Quote:

Brutal Strudel wrote: (Post 9068611)
I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek.

By that logic, Steve Buscemi must be a different species from Beyonce Knowles.

George Steinbrenner December 31 2013 07:19 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
^ I have often wondered what species Steve Buscemi is. :p

Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 9068404)
For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile?

Any world that wishes to join the Federation must be unified into one state ("Attached"). So if Orion is not so unified, then it can't be a member. Also, even if Orion is a member, then its practice of slavery would also not allow it in, as that would surely be forbidden under Federation law.

Quote:

And it's also possible that there's just a significant Orion diaspora within the Federation, with its members as citizens of the Federation and of whatever Federation Member State they live in. (Maybe there's a large community of Alpha Centauran Orions, or Ithenite Orions, or Grazerite Orions?)
Could be.

Sci December 31 2013 08:22 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Quote:

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: (Post 9068944)
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 9068404)
For that matter, it's possible that the Orions are not unified into one planetary or interplanetary state. Maybe there are two or more Orion polities, with one that's more Federation-friendly and another that's more hostile?

Any world that wishes to join the Federation must be unified into one state ("Attached"). So if Orion is not so unified, then it can't be a member. Also, even if Orion is a member, then its practice of slavery would also not allow it in, as that would surely be forbidden under Federation law.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that any Orion polity is a Federation Member. Rather, I am suggesting that the Orion species may be divided between multiple independent polities, with one being perhaps more friendly than the other towards the Federation. A figurative interstellar East Germany and West Germany, so to speak.

However, I see no reason why a sovereign Orion polity that meets the other requirements for Federation Membership could not join. If there's, say, an Orion Union and an Orion Republic, and the Orion Union governs its own solar system, is a liberal democracy, protects the natural rights of all its inhabitants, bans slavery and caste-based discrimination, etc., whilst the Orion Republic is a slave-based oligarchy? I see no reason why the Orion Union could not join the Federation while the Orion Republic stays out.

Heck, there's already at least one species that's divided between two polities, one of whom is a Federation Member State and one of whom is not: the Vulcan species, the majority of whose members appear to be citizens of the independent Romulan Star Empire, but whose original population base are citizens of the Vulcan polity, which is part of the Federation.

Brutal Strudel December 31 2013 10:18 AM

Re: The Orion Union
 
Quote:

Sci wrote: (Post 9068764)
Quote:

Brutal Strudel wrote: (Post 9068611)
I don't regard those women as Orion. The Orions we've seen have skin a different shade and black hair. They were, quite frankly, much sexier than the Christmas colored cuties in NuTrek.

By that logic, Steve Buscemi must be a different species from Beyonce Knowles.

Not really--Luwazanna Troi is a different species from Rachel Garrett.


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