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-   -   USA and UK surviving into the Trek era (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=227653)

Noddy October 4 2013 04:36 PM

USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
I have to admit, there are times when I'm a little unsure whenever a Star Trek movie or TV show depicts the United States of America or the United Kingdom of Great Britain as still existing well into the future era the Trek shows occur in, when it also seems like most other current governments have been replaced by new ones. What makes so many writers so sure the USA and other Western governments will still be going strong in the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries?

grendelsbayne October 4 2013 05:39 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
I doubt many of the writers really care whether the uk or us would actually survive into that time period.

Though you do make me curious, as I don't off the top of my head recall anything other than the British flag in STID that suggested either country really survived beyond the 21st century. What kind of examples are you thinking of?

Shawnster October 4 2013 05:52 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

grendelsbayne wrote: (Post 8727979)
I doubt many of the writers really care whether the uk or us would actually survive into that time period.

Though you do make me curious, as I don't off the top of my head recall anything other than the British flag in STID that suggested either country really survived beyond the 21st century. What kind of examples are you thinking of?

Kirk is from Iowa, Riker is from Alaska, Janeway is from Bloomington, Indiana. The United States exists at least as far as geography is concerned.

Picard is from France, so there is another country explicitly mentioned by name. Canada was also mentioned.

BigKrampus October 4 2013 05:59 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

Noddy wrote: (Post 8727697)
What makes so many writers so sure the USA and other Western governments will still be going strong in the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries?

I don't think they are. Most of Trek tried to simply stay away from Earth as much as possible, with TNG occasionally dropping hints about large regional states (like the "European Hegemony") leading eventually to "world government." The implication in most of what we do see is that nations haven't entirely stopped existing but have gathered together under the Federation umbrella. But it's all kept pretty vague AFAICS.

Merry Christmas October 4 2013 06:19 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
IIRC, Hoshi was teaching at a language school in Brazil during the Enterprise pilot, with the country being mentioned by name.

Also during Enterprise, Reed stated that Britain stiil retain a naval force, suggesting that it was still a sovereign entity.

Per Beverly, (in a hypothetical) Australia still existed in the year 2161. She didn't seem to be referring to the continent, but to the country.

Picard said that Riker (who was from Alaska) and George Armstrong Custer (who was from Ohio) were "countrymen." This suggests that the United States, in some form, remains a nation in the 24th century.

:)

Noddy October 4 2013 06:31 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
I believe the word "USA" can be seen on a news report in an ENT episode. And, of course, the Union Jack is still in use in Britain as of 2259, in STID. The stars-and-stripes was still in use until at least 2079, according to TNG "The Royale."

oddsigve October 4 2013 06:35 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

T'Girl wrote: (Post 8728204)
Per Beverly, (in a hypothedical) Australia still existed in the year 2161. She didn't seem to be referring to the continent, by to the country.
:)

Sorry for nitpicking, but the continent is not called Australia. It`s called Oceania.

I think the Star Trek universe has countries, but a ruling body on top of that. Kinda like the US works today with states and the federal government. And more to the point as history shows the likelihood of the same countries existing as they are today, for so long, is unlikely. Especially when you consider all the conflicts that occurred on earth like WW3 and the eugenics wars.

"World War III itself ultimately lasted from 2026 through 2053, and resulted in the death of some 600 million Humans. By that time, many of the planet's major cities and governments had been destroyed." (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/World_War_III)

David.Blue October 4 2013 06:41 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
You know, Styria still exists, even thought the Holy Roman Empire doesn't. So does Cappadocia, even without the Ottomans. The existence of Rome does not imply the Roman Empire yet reigns. So I'm not sure how good an evidence mentioning Iowa or Alaska might be towards showing the continued existence of the USA.

Noddy October 4 2013 06:53 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

oddsigve wrote: (Post 8728327)

"World War III itself ultimately lasted from 2026 through 2053, and resulted in the death of some 600 million Humans. By that time, many of the planet's major cities and governments had been destroyed." (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/World_War_III)

I have my doubts about WW3 starting in 2026. We see the year 2032 in VOY "One Small Step", and the Charybdis launched in 2037 according to TNG "The Royale", and if they were able to fund big space missions like those, I don't think there could have been a full-on global war going on.

-Brett- October 4 2013 07:12 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
I don't recall any character from what is now the United States actually identifying as being from the United States. From individual states and cities, yes, but there's no evidence that the US still exists in Star Trek's 23rd or 24th centuries.

As for those states and cities, I don't see any particular reason to think the names would change in 300 years. They might, but I wouldn't take it as a given that they will. It's not really a very long time, in the grand scheme of things.

Chaos Descending October 4 2013 07:13 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

oddsigve wrote: (Post 8728327)
Sorry for nitpicking, but the continent is not called Australia. It`s called Oceania.

Sorry for counter-nitpicking, but the continent on which the country of Australia lies is called... Australia.

Oceania is a REGION that contains the continent of Australia and many surrounding island.

grendelsbayne October 4 2013 07:16 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
I would have to agree that geographic names in and of themselves don't necessarily mean anything. The only examples so far that would seem to really imply anything is the Union Flag and the description of Riker being 'countryman' to historical Americans, and the flag could easily be nothing but local nostalgia.

I think it may also be wise to consider that - even if there are governments in the 24th century which share the same names as modern govts., that doesn't necessarily make them 'the same governments'. In fact, the history of Trek's WWIII would seem to suggest that most old governments were completely destroyed.

Maybe when the united earth government was formed after First Contact, it was just deemed most convenient (or least objectionable) for the regional and local subdivisions of the new government to be based on and named after the old independant nations.

MacLeod October 4 2013 07:23 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Quote:

Chaos Descending wrote: (Post 8728501)
Quote:

oddsigve wrote: (Post 8728327)
Sorry for nitpicking, but the continent is not called Australia. It`s called Oceania.

Sorry for counter-nitpicking, but the continent on which the country of Australia lies is called... Australia.

Oceania is a REGION that contains the continent of Australia and many surrounding island.

Beat me to it, but you are correct when people talk in terms of OCeania, they generally mean Australia, New Zealand at least from a geo-political view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Relayer1 October 4 2013 07:28 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
Wasn't Tom Paris in prision in New Zealand ?

Still transporting the convicts in the 24th century...

Chemahkuu October 4 2013 07:46 PM

Re: USA and UK surviving into the Trek era
 
The implication is pretty clear, that nearly all of the countries today still exist, with their current names intact and a certain individuality.

The borders exist out of nostalgia and probably aren't remotely enforced or given much thought.


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