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dub September 30 2013 02:50 AM

Random Thoughts
 
So Tuvok can speak mind to mind -- without a mind meld?? Did anyone else find this odd? Did Vulcans do this in previous Trek and I just don't remember? :vulcan:

KaraBear September 30 2013 01:09 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
it wasn't Tuvok that was doing that, those aliens have telepathy. He wanted the thoughts from Tuvok so he was initiating the link between them, not Tuvok

R. Star September 30 2013 02:20 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
That episode just always boggled me in the mere concept that a state could be so authoritarian to regulate what you can and can't think. To me that would be the ultimate tyranny to violate the sanctum of your private thoughts as a matter of routine.

dub September 30 2013 02:41 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
I was referring to the scene early in the episode when Nimira was talking to Tuvok mind to mind without a meld and without touching. What left me scratching my head was the brief mind to mind conversation when Nimira basically asked Tuvok why he insists on talking vocally instead of with his mind (again, no hands), and Tuvok acted like casually "mind talking" like that was old hat, he just didn't do it with limited humans. They were just walking along, not touching, just having a chat in their minds. So, basically that means Vulcans can talk to Betazoid-like aliens non-vocally and without a mind meld. I hadn't seen evidence of this in previous Trek...IIRC. Unless my mind is fuzzy on this, which is very possible. ;)

KaraBear September 30 2013 02:43 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8708422)
That episode just always boggled me in the mere concept that a state could be so authoritarian to regulate what you can and can't think. To me that would be the ultimate tyranny to violate the sanctum of your private thoughts as a matter of routine.

yes, but in their society when one person's thoughts can so strongly influence someone else's action there has to be a regulation.

dub September 30 2013 02:50 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8708422)
That episode just always boggled me in the mere concept that a state could be so authoritarian to regulate what you can and can't think. To me that would be the ultimate tyranny to violate the sanctum of your private thoughts as a matter of routine.

I agreed with Seven when she was talking about how dumb it was for federation explorers to ignorantly beam down to a planet without having some of the crew review the government's laws for any potential red flags and discuss that with a contact on the surface before beaming down. Delegate someone to sort through it. Seems like a sane thing to do to me. There should be...some kind of...directive. :) But then that would remove an easy way to create TV drama. ;)

R. Star September 30 2013 08:18 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Quote:

KaraBear wrote: (Post 8708503)
Quote:

R. Star wrote: (Post 8708422)
That episode just always boggled me in the mere concept that a state could be so authoritarian to regulate what you can and can't think. To me that would be the ultimate tyranny to violate the sanctum of your private thoughts as a matter of routine.

yes, but in their society when one person's thoughts can so strongly influence someone else's action there has to be a regulation.

See, I don't buy that. If there's so undisciplined that someone else's stray thought of violence makes them do it, then make your laws require mental discipline training like say Vulcan meditation. Blaming the someone for their stray thought influencing someone else's crime is like the rapist saying that woman's loose outfit provoked him. In the end, people should be accountable for their actions no matter what is "influencing" them.

Don't get me wrong, as the society is the crew screwed up like dub suggested. They should've gotten that little detail before they sent the violent Klingon down there and just let Tuvok and Vorik handle their negotiations.

SignGuyHPW October 11 2013 05:38 AM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
I think they had established that Vulcans were telepathic to a degree meaning that they held this ability. I always just presumed that a mind meld was a more intensive type of telepathy which made physical contact needed. Just a normal conversation with another species that had telepathic abilities was something they could do without as strong as a connection.

dub October 11 2013 04:32 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Quote:

SignGuyHPW wrote: (Post 8755087)
I think they had established that Vulcans were telepathic to a degree meaning that they held this ability.

When was this established? I either missed it or forgot about it because I was definitely scratching my head at these scenes. :confused:

Melakon October 11 2013 05:20 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
^ In one of the TOS episodes (can't remember which, Devil in the Dark?) Spock says something like 'limited telepathic abilities are inherent in Vulcans'.

It might also be from 'By Any Other Name' or 'A Taste of Armageddon', I was watching those 3 episodes several times last month while my computer was out of action.

Anwar October 11 2013 05:26 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Remember, Spock was able to mind-control a guy without even touching him. He just had to put his hands on the other side of the wall the guy was pressed against.

There's more to Vulcan telepathy than physical contact.

dub October 11 2013 05:54 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
Guys, thank you so much. That answers it for me. I'll have to go back and re-watch those TOS episodes, Melakon. Thanks again! :techman:

Melakon October 11 2013 06:06 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
The line I was thinking of is from "A Taste of Armageddon". Anwar's description narrowed it down for me and I checked the transcripts to confirm.

Also look for Robert Sampson as Anan's right hand man. Years later, he's Dean Halsey, one of Jeffrey Combs' test subjects in Re-Animator.

lurok October 11 2013 07:20 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
The telepathic/empathetic abilities of Vulcans is...interesting to say the least. Doesn't Spock feel the deaths of that Vulcan Starfleet crew over great distances in (whatever that amoeba episode was...Immunity Syndrome?).

Not to mention T'Pol and Trip's weird dream bonding.

Lord Manitou October 13 2013 03:43 PM

Re: Random Thoughts
 
If you read star trek novels you learn that Vulcans are so super in mentallity that it would just be natural to enforce his superiority to this race of telepaths.


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